Alert: Unfair use of Power

Discussion in 'Customer Service' started by InsigneForBalonD'or, Apr 29, 2015.

  1. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Just in others.
     
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  2. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    The problem is that there are some who are injecting their own subjective standards and then creating definitions of racist terms. He could have used lunatics, barbarians, mob or thugs and those who wanted to read it as a racist comment would have done so. Clearly their interpretation is based on the actors involved. Makes one question who truly is the racist.

    This is a public forum, yet reading some of the posts on this thread and knowing how the "regulars" act on the politics forum, there is a practice of exclusivity. I use to frequent the politics forum but discontinued as clearly the "regulars" would attack onslaught against anyone deviating from their agenda. There is no open discourse there. Ironically, the way some attempt to bully individuals for having their own opinion would land them in suspension if they were attending school. There are a number who regularly degrade people from the south or other poor areas in the U.S. Recently someone made a derogatory statement about folks from Appalachia. Such hate that is displayed on that forum.

    I don't recall signing up for particular forums when I registered on BigSoccer. I am under the impression that I can go to any sub forum and engage in dialogue. But there is a problem with some thinking that they are a private group in several sub forums. Yes, there is the understanding of not trolling. But this was not such a case. The post made was in reaction to what was being shown on every news station in the country. There was nothing offensive in the statement made and for people to interpret beyond what was written is not reasonable.

    I once again request that Sal be reinstated his posting privileges.
     
  3. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=negroes as animals&safe=active

    Based on the number of links, this is far from "creating definition of racist terms." Additionally, a couple of extremely racism websites are among the two 4 that come up.

    None of those terms dehumanize. That is the difference.

    Nobody is preventing you from engaging in dialogue, provided you understand that what is acceptable. Additionally, when one makes the type of comment in question but has a known history, it will be taken differently. Further, if it is more than a single line, it is also taken differently. Another poster was also out of bounds, but that poster did more than one liners and lasted a bit before he, too, was excluded for mostly the same reason.

    But, you continue to argue that what was said should be allowed, full stop. You are continuing to dodge the question of why it was unacceptable (so I gave you the link above). I hope others who have come to the defense of Sal are not to blind as to the reasoning behind the decision.

    It is also interesting that those who are for a much greater allowance for language and freedom in that forum have not come to the defense of Sal.
     
  4. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    #29 Falc, Apr 30, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015
    I am not dodging anything. The burden is not on me, it is on those who are enforcing the ban. Again, the use of subjective standards to ban a poster is an abuse of power. The instant Sal wrote that post, it was not to make a racial comment. It was a comment on what he was seeing live on television. Searching links using the terms animal and negroes does not justify branding him a racist. Obviously you can't make an argument to defend the actions taken against Sal.

    Furthermore, if the ban is not lifted, then I expect those on the politics forum who have made derogatory posts against people from the south and Appalachia to be given a red card as well. There should be no double standards. And the intent is clear on those cases.

    Addition - I went ahead and use the term animal in the search function of Urban Dictionary. I did not find any reference to its use as a racial term.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Animal
     
  5. el napulitan

    el napulitan Member+

    Sep 28, 2008
    < @sals mom crew >
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    What worse is that he is stating it as a fact. Stating someone as a racist on a non racist comment and then maintaning sal is racist imo should be a red card offence in itself. You cant just go round labling people as racist when there is zero evidence to suggest it, When others can clearly see the comment was not aimed at any race. Im sure sal could take this further if he wished to do so,

    The internet today is not a place where you can just freely damage someones repetation . Funny that calling a bunch of people animals based on their behaviour has caused the poster to be banned but its free for all to call him racist when there is no proof at all. Anyone can call a donkey a horse, But it doesnt make a donkey a horse just because a mod calls it a horse.
     
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  6. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
  7. el napulitan

    el napulitan Member+

    Sep 28, 2008
    < @sals mom crew >
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    #32 el napulitan, Apr 30, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015
    read this after i posted, Bsaically same as what i posted, Really is a joke that some feel thay can label whoever they want a racsist and continue to push that agenda when any rational thinking person (im being polite here btw) can deduce form sals comment it was about the people rioting and not the race of the rioters.
    Just aswell he never called black people animals then isnt it.
    Huge clue there that debunks sal as a racist or guilty of making a racist comment
    Well he never did he? He used the word animals, In all my life i have never heard black people be refered to as animals, not by sal and not by racists, Monekeys, Apes yes. but not animals.

    99.9999999999% of the world would understand sals comments, if anyone is pretending to not understand it is certainly not the people who can see sals comments were made about rioters and not black people, guess what? there were riots in london a few years ago, they were labled animals. I guess that was racist too? Everyone on social media, National media. All racist

    also one more thing
    so some of you guys arent content enough to just lable someone racist based on evidence that my 12 year old nephew can decipher but you also try to convince people that they understand your views but are lieing to themselves.


    Now enough of this rubbish, show hard evidence, not your interpretation. Your interpretation only shows your own real views, not sals. people toook sals comments and projected their own views onto sal, Im guessing they didnt like the fact sals comments made them realise they are racist so they attacked him.
     
  8. el napulitan

    el napulitan Member+

    Sep 28, 2008
    < @sals mom crew >
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Ninja Delete i see. I wonder if they were warned rather than just banned without warning.
     
  9. La Magica

    La Magica Member+

    Aug 1, 2011
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Why did he delete his comment?
     
  10. el napulitan

    el napulitan Member+

    Sep 28, 2008
    < @sals mom crew >
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    So as we are supposedly all righteous in here. one half "trying" to claim sal is racist, the other half "proving" he isnt, And wondering why he was banned without warning when he did not intend to offend anyone.

    i'd like to know, as an italian. why the post above mine (#33) was deleted by a mod and the person who posted it who clearly meant to offend, or instigate something (This i can deduce from the fact a mod felt the need to delete it) I would like to know why he has not been given a red card or at the very least a yellow when the poster delibarately set out to offend a group of people (italians, and a guido or two)? It is more bewildering when it has taken place in a thread where mods are trying to convince us sal made a racist comment, a comment that had now racial conotation but more so was not meant to directly offend any poster in that thread unlike this photo that was posted


    [​IMG]

    I have never had greasy hair, or a leather jacket, or duck lips, So explain to me, and my fellow italians, and a respected poster who was banned, why he was banned without warning, without intent to offend, But posters taking shots at italians get protected?
     
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  11. el napulitan

    el napulitan Member+

    Sep 28, 2008
    < @sals mom crew >
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    read above
     
  12. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    So you rig the search by making it specific to "negroes" by googling "Negroes as animals?!" Really?! What kind of nonsense is this?

    Well duh!! You can make any word derogatory with that kind of insincerity.

    This is a fine demonstration that racial connotation was applied to the word animal by those judging the mob of people wreaking havoc because of their skin color, not their actions.

    So who's really looking at them for their skin color?

    Oh yes they do, if I do as you did and rig the search by adding the word "negroes" like you did.

    Here is "negroes as lunatics!"

    https://www.google.com/search?q=negroes as animals&safe=active&cad=h#safe=active&q=negroes as lunatics

    How about googling "negroes as thugs"?

    https://www.google.com/search?q=negroes as animals&safe=active&cad=h#safe=active&q=negroes as thugs

    Imagine that. I'm. going to quote you now:

    "Additionally, a couple of extremely racism websites are among the two 4 that come up."

    Crazy how that works...now I guess the words

    Thugs and Lunatics refers exclusively to black people too?!?

    So in who's mind was the word animal
    racist?

    In the minds of those who chose to look at the mob of people doing the damage and judging them by their skin color, not their actions.
     
  13. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whole lot of privilege being displayed in this thread.
     
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  14. Generic Roma Supporter

    Aug 18, 2012
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Well excuse me, and all the others who are complaining, for wanting a fair and just site where people are not banned for simple misunderstandings
     
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  15. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hear that a lot. That I misunderstand people people when they refer to me with a term that I find offensive. Then they tell me to get over it. I'm being too sensitive.

    Then I respond in kind and they play the victim. Just like you guys are doing...
     
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  16. La Magica

    La Magica Member+

    Aug 1, 2011
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Yet other posts clearly intent to provoke on a thread around the subject get deleted and tried to be brushed under the carpet...It should be equal across the board but it seems theres an agenda being played out here.
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Animal" is code. But it's a bit of an outdated code...it would be like me using slang from 1995 to my kids. They wouldn't get it.

    Maybe Sal is too young to be aware of the code. I think that red was like when a ref in a soccer match decides an orange card offense warrants a red for match control purposes.

    If anyone cares about my opinion, let sal come back after a one week timeout.

    Now, what are we going to do about MLS fan? That guy has a closet full of white hoods, straight up, no doubt. There ain't no room for interpretation there.
     
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  18. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    #43 dark knight, May 1, 2015
    Last edited: May 1, 2015
    Okay - so it seems many of you complaining aren't really being serious and I feel silly for falling a little for the trolling, but for anyone who actually is willing to talk about this calmly and seriously, I offer the following:

    For the record, I'm not calling @Sal a racist. In a thread about race and racism in this country - in the context of racial inequality and racism - any poster who comes in and refers to one race as "********ing animals" cannot hide behind the defense of "I was talking about rioters!" This is the thread you chose to post in - it's like swinging an elbow and breaking someone's nose and crying that it was inadvertent. Like I said above, Sal may claim he did not intend it that way, but if you are going to throw an elbow out there and it lands, your "intent" isn't really relevant.

    In real life, he wouldn't use this language in a mixed group of people - none of you would - so I just don't buy this defense that it's a totally normal thing to say. BigSoccer isn't the place to anonymously say offensive things you wouldn't say in real life. I'm sorry that none of you seem to have people in your lives that you wouldn't say this to.

    And here's the rub, @Sal and a number of you posting here have a clear history of taking pleasure in trolling other forums and threads on BigSoccer using inflammatory and offensive language. Since y'all made me care about this, I did some digging and @Sal made a post that deliberately used an offensive racial slur in a thread he was trolling. Had I seen that at the time, I would have redded him immediately and without warning. Your posting history matters, just ask Mr. Warmth above.

    Like it or not, BigSoccer cares about this issue - you may not always agree with the judgement that is applied, and you may feel aggrieved if you feel that the judgement is unfair, but if you want a site that doesn't care about at least trying to get this right, then this may not be the site for you.
     
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  19. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [QUOTE="dark knight, post: 32170616, member: 6499]

    And here's the rub, @Sal and a number of you posting here have a clear history of taking pleasure in trolling other forums and threads on BigSoccer using inflammatory and offensive language. Since y'all made me care about this, I did some digging and @Sal made a post that deliberately used an offensive racial slur in a thread he was trolling. Had I seen that at the time, I would have redded him immediately and without warning. [/QUOTE]
    Ah...so this is more Blas Perez than, say, Chad Marshall.

    So it sounds like sal meant to be a provocative a-hole, and writing something racist was an accident. Or more accurately, an "accident."

    Week and a half then?
     
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  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @Falc wrote a list of alternatives that could have been used but were not. I found the list interesting. Anyone reading this thread... Go through the list and decide which words would sound weird to you in describing Baltimore. Then ask yourself why certain words seem to fit and certain words don't. Then think about, say, the recent violent (sometimes) protests in Greece over austerity, and which words would sound weird or normal in that situation.

    Ask yourself why Africa and the Middle East have tribal conflict, and why the Balkans have ethnic conflicts.

    I don't want to get all semiotical here, but words are a method of thought control. We need to work to transcend that, not surrender to it.
     
  21. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Then the poster who used the "N" word has also been banned? I registered a report. If that individual has not been dealt with properly, then I can't take your last sentence with sincerity.
     
  22. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    This is an example of why I don't think you're serious. You and I both know why these are not equivalent. Nor is this some kind of conspiracy against any group of people - we red people all the time other than @Sal for using slurs.

    If I get @Sal to agree that he knowingly posted a slur in a thread he was trolling, can we all admit he's not blameless?
     
  23. Generic Roma Supporter

    Aug 18, 2012
    Club:
    AS Roma
    There is a distinct difference between deliberate trolling with the expectation to be reprimanded and writing an emotional response to current national affairs. While I agree that the term "animal" could certainly be used in a racist way, it was not in this case. "Animal" as slang can be used to express how a person is acting in a primal or irrational fashion, like criminals and lawbreakers. In most cases, it is very deliberate and clear when a person denotes the supposed inferiority of a race of people. The person who took it to that level was the mod in the thread. It was completely by his inference that it was taken in a racially derogatory way. What if the majority of the rioters were white or Latino and Sal used the term animal? Would he have been punished? Probably not.

    And I wholly disagree with the notion that no one would used a term like that in mixed company. The problem with this situation is because it is conveyed through text, and some are attributing a subjective view to the matter when it should be entirely objective. It is perfectly fair to call people who are acting so stupidly "animals". If there were, let's say, vandal teenagers who went around a community and trashed public property, am I racist if I refer to them as animals? No, because it has nothing to do with their skin color; it is directed at their actions, just like Sal's statement.
     
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  24. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    No, I am serious. I have explained my reasons. There are double standards on this forum. Are you making an excuse for a poster to use the "N" word because of his supposed race? I don't recall any check boxes on the profile page that states race? Explain how this can be allowed?

    http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...-marriage-issue.1979411/page-21#post-32167833

    You state that Sal went into that thread referring to a race as animals. That is putting a lot of intent to a single sentence.

    http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...limit-for-today.2015578/page-63#post-32152345

    He was then egged on by another poster, who does it all of the time, for other comments. He posted three more times after that, including pictures depicting the destruction of the city. The first post was at 8:59 pm, Monday. The last post was at 9:30 pm, Monday. Taken into context, none of his posts were aimed at any race. It was in response to the behavior of those rioting, looting and burning parts of the city. It was posted while there were fires throughout the city.

    That was it. Sal was not involved in any other dialogue nor was his post brought up after that 30-minute span. Afterwards, there were numerous discussions about race, none which involved Sal's comment. That includes comments from one of your Staff Members. That Staff Member then decided give a red card nearly 24 hours after Sal's original post. He commented about a group of people being dehumanized over and over through their lives as if Sal was the one doing it. No.

    http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...limit-for-today.2015578/page-70#post-32157212

    If Sal used a specific term that historically has a derogatory meaning towards a specific race or ethnicity, I can understand. But people destroying property, causing harm to others are not acting as humans regardless of their race, creed or nationality. That applies to those idiots between Juventus and Torino at the stadium the other day, ISIS beheading and killing people with different beliefs and anyone that riots and destroys as we saw the other night.

    Sal was stupid to venture into that forum because there are some there who act in disgusting manners. That is not a sin to banish him. If his intent was to troll and throw slurs as you want him to declare, he would have posted many more times and throughout the night.

    Take me seriously and rescind the ban.
     
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  25. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    I appreciate you at least acknowledging that this could be taken as racist. The mod actually was responding to complaints I believe - and he consulted a number of other people before taking action. Y'all are way off on blaming the mod for abusing power. This mod is one of our most restrained and least interested in power tripping.

    We'll never know what his punishment would be if the rioters were a different race but we do know that he chose to use that language about Black Americans in a discussion about racism towards Black Americans. I get that y'all want to defend your friend, but context matters, as does a poster's history. He didn't say they are acting like animals, he said they are ********ing animals. I'm sorry, but blaming people who take that the wrong way is misguided at best.

    Yeah - you're wrong on this. Would you go to Harlem and tell peaceful protesters that the rioters are ********ing animals and by the way, it's not racist because you call all sorts of people ********ing animals? Yeah, no, you wouldn't.
     

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