So the soon to be legend @Sal has been improperly banned from Big Soccer. He has a red card for STATING HIS OPINION. If that is not abuse of power i don't know what is .. so wake up and red card that mod cuz he's abusing his power and ya. I call @elvesuvio , @JCNapoli17 , and @vesuviani to the stand to support. I realize that @Sal is not the smartest person here. Hell he's probably the stupidest but my point still stands. @Sal you can't say i don't support you buddy. (Please everyone just ignore my Sig it's a joke. I understand most mods don't understand what jokes are so just ignore it)
Just because one has an opinion does not mean one has to state it. Additionally, just because one has an opinion, it also does not mean it is acceptable. As this is a freedom of speech issue, please remember that speech is limited in every democracy for any number of reasons. While BS is not a government, it operates under this same principle of limiting speech that is deemed to be excessive (racism, sexism, violent, etc.) if it violates the TOS. Said speech did violate TOS. Also, this is not something the mods are excessive on. Quite often a line is drawn, but there is a discussion as to which side of the line the poster is standing on, and that usually ends up being the allowable side.
In this particular case, the mod went overboard. The reasonable person standard was not applied. It was his personal standards instead. Mods cannot act in that manner. Was a warning given? Was the supposed offensive comment deleted? Since when has the term animal become forbidden? People on that forum engage in personal attacks on consistent basis. If someone brings a different point of view, it becomes a mob scene. Just the kind of crap that should be the norm on a forum dedicated to politics. The forum should be closed. It is not an open forum, it is one that has a particular agenda. Retitle it then if that is the case.
Yeah, if it was a republican politician called an animal it would be repped by half the board, or a police officer. But you call people destroying cop cars and buildings animals and you're banned from the whole forum? Laughable. Don't get on your high horses and hide behind your TOS here.
As far as I'm concerned, this was a misunderstanding of language. Both sides have stated their piece, and it is clear that @Sal had no intentions of being racist or writing a racist remark, it was simply inferred in the wrong way. It does not seem fair to let the ban stand, especially since he was never given a warning.
Reading y'all come out in droves to defend that comment is one of the more depressing things I've read in a while. Here's what wouldn't depress me as much in case you were wondering - hey BigSoccer, I get why that comment might be seen as offensive by many, but Sal is a good guy and even though that comment may reveal some attitudes he carries, he deserves a second chance because I like him so much. I understand why he received a red card because no one should tolerate bigotry in this century, but I urge you to consider making his time on the sidelines somewhat brief and I will encourage him to reflect on what occurred here and why his comments were viewed the way they were. This false equivalency about "I call other races animals all the time!" is just a big load of horseshit and y'all should have the dignity to admit it. Sal may have just made a mistake and is being misunderstood - just as the guy who said mow my lawn and is now on a red card for doing so (no warning either btw) - but we don't warn you to not make comments like that and if you don't know how to steer clear of attention from us, that's on you.
Honestly - we don't warn people for racist comments. Sal is talking to me and seems to be dealing with this better than others so as far as I'm concerned this should be short.
At the end of the day he said what he said and it was not racist. It took another mind to take it there and that was the mind of a mod. And Sal is a good guy. I'd even go as far as saying probably one of the few that is liked by all. I think this is one of those fine line situations but I certainly don't feel he crossed one. On another note I do have concerns with mods deleting threads. I recently had a situation where a thread was deleted because a mod felt that I was instigating something that I made no reference to.
That is the opinion is question, and what is apparently being discussed between DK and Sal. Actually, it was several posters who went that route. And considering the terminology in question, it is correct. If it is a translation error, that is another question. But the phrasing in English is quite clear, even if unintended, and has plenty of historical basis. Even as someone who is liberal on allowing for speech and translation errors, this one crossed the line (particularly since it was a one liner). One upon a time, Dark Knight had a sig that said "Think before you post." If it is a questionable red card foul, a hand ball in the box, gesture between players, or any other incident that brings out emotion, those 4 words are very important to heed. It is the difference between a red card and being engaged. Have you discussed it was the mod in question?
It was not a racist comment. In what dictionary has the term animal become racist? The comment was about people rioting, looting and setting fire to neighborhoods. Show us where there was any racist connotation about that. The problem is that certain readers make it a racist comment, which it was not. Any individual of any color, creed or ethnicity who destroys his or her own neighborhood is acting as an animal. Mods should not make their own interpretations of what people write and act upon it. That is an abuse of power. Furthermore, there are a number of individuals who attack others for differing political views and use derogatory terms towards other political parties. Then there have been some making negative comments towards Italians. Are those posters going to be banned? There was no attitude or bigotry in Sal's post he lives about 30 miles from Baltimore. He has family in the city and a cousin who owns and operates a restaurant in Baltimore. There was nothing wrong about his reaction, one that was felt by many across the country. Race had nothing to do with this. Anyone implying that his comment was racist is committing libel and defaming an individual for something he did not do. Rescind the ban and he deserves an apology.
I did. I disagreed with his reason for deleting the thread and long story short he told me to take it up with customer service.
You have a tendency not to listen to any well reasoned argument, even when evidence is presented, and your posting here is not doing your fellow posters any benefit. The idea of authoritarianism has been thrown around, and this is your (specific to you) response. Again, not helping your fellow posters. I'm really not sure how anybody can answer your specific concern who is not privy to your conversation. That said, each forum in BS is not in isolation from any other, and there is a quite fluid movement of posters between fora. Back in the day, there were neg rep cliques going around centered on one forum, but reading posts on other. Thus, when a concern arises in one forum, and it is reported back to other, similar minded posters in another forum, there may be some action taken. For example, a comment made on the Arsenal forum that gets back to the Tottenham forum may require action by the Tottenham mods to prevent an escalation on the Arsenal forum and a flame war on both fora (yes, we mods have seen this happen).
The most debasing thing to do to an individual is to make the false accusation that he is a racist with nothing to support the allegation. The other day in the Derby della Mole, two groups of fans in the curva, separated not only by plexiglass but space between the glasses were throwing objects at each other and trading insults. One even threw a paper bomb that caused injury to several people. Guess what, those people were animals. No one gives a damn about skin color, it is their actions that create that description. The actions taken by the moderator, which is being defended and condoned by other moderators, falsely accuses and labels my young friend as a racist. There is no basis for it. He comes from a good family, whom I have known for most of my life. He is not a racist and characterising him as such is wrong. Someone getting upset over a sentence, interpreting incorrectly and then taking extreme actions is an injustice. I am offended of this inaccurate classification of Sal and ask once again that his ban be removed.
I am not sure any of the Super Moderators believe that the actions of someone on BigSoccer that may result in an infraction, forum ban, or site ban mean that user is that way in real life. I find it very easy to believe that someone who makes a racist post (or two, or more) is not a racist in the rest of life, or that their posting style does not reflect them as a whole. I believe you that his family is good, and that he is not a racist. That does not preclude the posts being racist and out of line for the forum and/or the site.
Guys, I want you to considering the following: This Customer Service thread is known to the thread in question, many of the posters there are on varying sides of the argument (it is not linear positioning). The comment in question was a single line about the situation in Baltimore. A single line. It was reported, several questioned it's validity, and action was taken. The complaints of the red came from NOBODY in that forum. NOBODY defended the post, or defended the red card who was a regular in that forum. That is telling in a forum that is filled with many posters of different viewpoints, of different education levels, and different experiences. None of the regulars defended Sal. The only semi-regular is Falc, who has a reputation from many in that forum as not being able to rationally argue a factual point, particularly when evidence says his point is incorrect. The rest of the defenders, and I believe one was a sock (not a good call), came from outside the forum of the post in question. And the argument in question is largely that of "Sal is not racist." The decision to red was made based on a number of factors, but none of them had anything to do with Sal's history, which in the forum in question, is almost void. AFAIK, nobody in the thread and on that forum knew anything about Sal at that time, or really, subsequently. I certainly didn't, and don't, except for a single post that is, as written, racist. Is Sal racist? Based on that single post, the answer is yes. And there is nothing that says otherwise at the time the decision was made to red card him. It had to be that type of decision, and I would have done the same. But, as with all cases of accused wrong, the final decision has not been made (I am assuming based on DKs previous comments). The subsequent reaction, though, was also telling, and filled with universal victimization. It was as if a member of the Borg collective was killed. It took DK to tell you guys how to form your argument, another telling point. But, to me, what is most telling, NOBODY has asked why that post was deemed to be wrong. There have been claims of misterpertation, mistranlation, Sal is not racist in real life, but nobody has engaged in any discourse to understand the rationale behind the reading of the post, even though I, personally, have explained it in two or three different ways (prior to this post), and DK has explained it in at least 2 or 3 different ways. A little bit of humility will go a long way.
This was the entire comment ..... ********ing animals destroying baltimore, they are destroying their own neighborhoods. It was in reference to the actions of the individuals. There is nothing racist about what he wrote. There is no mention of race or use of any derogatory term. It was in reaction to what they were doing to their neighborhood. Inferring that those remarks were racist is solely in the mind of the reader. I have a problem with someone distorting a single sentence and turning it into racial allegations. Nothing from that post was racist or out of line. People acting insanely as we saw that night is animalistic, just as the idiots fighting each other across plexiglass walls during a soccer match played the other day. Their skin color has nothing to do with it. Show us what was racial about that comment. Do not associate the comments to the people involved in the action. That would be racial.
Then demanding that everyone else do so as well or they're guilty by association, and claiming this is rational thinking.
The thread was a thread about racism, calling black people that riot that word is a common racist thing people say all the time. Along with monkey chants in soccer and such, so when someone comes out of the blue to call people rioting in Baltimore animals, it comes as racist due to the history we have been arguing about in that thread and other similar racism treads. We human beings are all apes, if Sal had used that word in the same way as he used animals, he would have gotten a red card also, due to the history of people using that word against black people. And you know this, do not act like you do not understand this.
Sorry I really don't want to be posting in this thread anymore but again he described people's behavior during the riot. Again this is you guys making it about color. Either way at the end of the day we're not going to agree on this. I'm really done with this conversation.