Was anyone else not impressed at all by Germany's squad? I thought our key players who are WC bound (Dolo, Mastro, Gibbs, Wolff, EJ, Convey) all outplayed their German counterparts. This German squad smacks of Bundesliga averageness, IMO. I'm not impressed at all. Cherundolo looks head and shoulders above Lahm, and Lahm is at Munich while Cherundolo is at lowly Hannover (granted he's the captain and plays every minute but still). Similarly, Ballack was not terribly impressive either. Gibbs ran him down on one occasion when Ronaldinho would've scored I'm sure, or Ronaldo or Rooney etc. Mastroeni was schooling them, and he plays for the Colorado Rapids while the Germans have their pick from Bayern Munich, Schalke etc. Clearly, the divide in club pedigree does not correspond to the divide in talent. This reaffirmed to me that despite the fact that there are only an extremely small number of Americans deemed capable of even getting signed by a Bundesliga squad, magically our B team was able to fully compete with all this German players who are plucked from the best of the best Bundesliga teams. Hell even Josh Wolff looked good in his limited time. Convey, who I guess you could say is playing for a borderline premiership team (but in reality, they'll be a bottom of the table team in all likelihood next year) was dribbling circles around some of the best Bundesliga players there are. I think this game showed me that the very strong foreign influence in the Bundesliga is there for a reason...because there aren't that many good German players. It also showed me that any player who makes the final 23 man US WC roster could easily play and start in the Bundesliga if they were given the same leeway the Germans are. That means that players who probably in reality have no shot at, or would really struggle to get, a Bundesliga starting spot like Twellman or Wolff or Hejduk, are missing out solely because they're American and there is a bias against them manifested both in lack of exposure to the Bliga scouts as well as general bias that they can't cut it. The more high level friendlies the US schedules against Euro teams in Europe, the better the chances our fringe players will get picked up by Euro squads. That is why I'd like to petition for friendlies against France, Italy, Germany, England, Spain and Scotland in their home countries as much as possible. Give the Wolffs and Dempseys their paydays and much needed spots at top level clubs.
I don't agree that those players you mentioned outplayed their counterparts...but maybe i'm biased. But at least the score is a fact. Anyways, if you make general assumptions like that on the basis of one single match I could hold against that by saying that my favorite clubteam outplayed Juventus a couple of weeks ago fielding 8 germans in the starting lineup. Also a soccer match is not only about the skill of the individual players. It's also about team tactics and in than matter the german team could do much better. I think there actually are many good german players. Our U21 is a top contender for the Euro in Portugal for example.
I guess we disagree then. I counted at least 5 consecutive times Gibbs either stole the ball from Asamoah, won a US throw in, or forced a back pass. Asamoah didn't get by Gibbs once. That is outplaying. The others are similar cases IMO. Anyways, yes the score is a fact. But if the US fielded its A team against the German B team, I think the US would crush the Germans just like the Germans crushed the US' B team. That is my opinion and I think many would agree, whether you do or not. Finally, my impression of being very underwhelmed by the German team stands and has been corroborated by others who saw the game. Simply put, they do not have world class attackers, no creativity, and are weak and susceptible on defense. IMO, Mexico would probably beat Germany in the WC, and Mexico is the US' bitch. I think the German squad is on par or below the Poles, and the Poles are not very good. That is just where it stands, and I think England, Spain, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, Holland, and France would all crush Germany if the met in the WC. Germany is the weakest of the supposed world powers, despite having home field advantage. I will be absolutely shocked if they get past the round of 16. It is possible, but will require immense luck (like last time vs. the US in the quarters).
I can´t agree to most your other offenses. I fully agree, that some German players couldn´t show a good game (e.g. Asamoah, Schneider, Friedrich), but there weren´t outplayed. Arena chose IMHO a good tactic to take them out of the match. It wasn´t the case, that the US B-team players had superior individual skills, but that your coach prepared the team very good and let them play a forechecking, which brought Germany into some problems. I would be happy to have such coach if i were an American, so IMHO (as a guest) i can´t understand the bashing against him in this forum by some users. To the offense, that many of the German players can´t play football. (I interpretated your statement like this) Sure, Germany had better teams in past, but the players are not bad. But to play against a physical, disciplinated team like the USA on Wednesday is not easy, they did a good forechecking to trouble the German build up play, furthermore their were some players at your B-team with good technical skills, like especially Convey. So i wouldn´t blame a team against you have lost (shouldn´t sound arrogant), but be happy, that at your B-team there are some players, that can help you during the World Cup.
While some of the individual performances of our players stood out. You have to put that into a team context. You can easily say that Ching had a horrible game at foward, but who was there to get him the ball, true he has not found his scoring touch with the USMNT, but has he been put on the field with Claudio Reyna, arguably our best playmaking mid, to get him the ball. Those two may play great together. Bottom line is that every players performance is somewhat based on the performance of everyone else on the field.
Exactly.... not everyone knows this. Klein, KZ, and others looked out of place. This really impacted the team in all facets of the game.
Maybe. But after beating the US 4-1, the US squad smack of MLS averageness. And Bundesliga >>>>>>> MLS (not that you will ever admit that). Ballack's quality is not up for debate. He's world-class. End of story. If he had a bad match against the US and Germany still won 4-1, all that means is the US were lucky to "only" lose 4-1. What would've happened had Ballack been his usual self? If by "fully compete" you mean hang within 3 goals when the opposition players are having a bad night, then I agree. So, in short, you believe the US reached their potential in that game? Funny, didn't you once start a thread where you argued that the US' potential is essentially the sky .. ie. they could walk-over just about anyone including England ("EJ > Rooney, LD > Gerrard, etc")? Your ignorance is astounding and laughable at the same time. Couldn't you have made this post on a Monday morning? I don't really need this laugh on a Friday. Too bad that during their jerk off series.... eerrrr... I mean 'send-off series' they're playing minnows from around the world (Latvia, Venezuela, Costa Rica, Morrocco -- and all at home)
While the overall talent level of Germany's sqaud is well below that of England, Brazil, Argentina, etc. the poor play of the German's to me, represents more a lack of team cohesion and Klinsmann's tactical naivety. As someone who follows the Bundesliga regularly, I find your assertions on the talent of the German players laughable (as is judging by a single game). To suggest that Cherundolo (who is a very good player) is head and shoulders above Lahm is ridiculous to say the least. Lahm's been very good since coming back from a serious injury, and it is no accident that Chelsea has been scouting him recently. He has also shown that he can play very well at the international level, as he was one of the very few bright spots for Germany at Euro 2004. If you look at the top players this year in the Bundesliga, many are members of the German squad, including Klose, Frings, Borowski, Ballack, Kehl etc. There are quality players for the Germans, but it hasn't translated well at all to the NT. This is where team cohesion and tactics come to play. Again, your confusing overall team play (not to mention the fact that the German NT played like complete crap for 70 minutes) with individual club pedigree. There definitely are players on that squad who could IMO play well in the Bundesliga (Mastroeni, Gibbs (already has), Convey, Johnson etc.), but to suggest that someone like Twellman could walk on to a Bundesliga team and start is ridiculous.
Oh really, the US team smacked of MLS averageness? You think? Well maybe that is because it was a team of MLS players, many of whom are very very average. So, great observation. You missed the point obviously. The point is about Germany, and that they aren't good at all. If you want to draw comparisons to the US, well it would be more relevant to compare with the real US team, not that MLS team we brought to Dortmund. Ballack is the only glimmer of hope for Germany, and he's not that good relative to the real world class players of the world (do I need to name them here?). I'm not saying the US has anyone better than Ballack (they don't). The US also lacks real world class players, it has no superstars. Yes I did start that thread. No I did not say anything close to resembling the claim the US could walk over anyone including England. I said EJ has the potential to be as good as Rooney some day. Same with LD and Gerrard etc. Many agreed with me, you did not. The US' A team has that kind of potential. You did not see the real US team on Wednesday, you saw a bunch of fringe players who had slight chances of making the bench of the 23 man US roster. The only surefire starters you saw play were Kasey Keller and Steve Cherundolo. The other players who could actually see the field in the WC were Gibbs, Mastroeni, Convey, and Eddie Johnson. That means one half of the players on the field have a chance of seeing the field in the WC, and only 2-3 will start games most likely (according to Bruce Arena). You clearly seemed to have missed the point that the US brought its bench warmers and competed for 70 minutes, and had Germany on its heels for 30 minutes at the end of the first half. Brazil, or England, or Argentina or any other world power would've crushed that feeble US squad from the opening minute. Germany did not, because they are very weak relative to the other world powers. I don't understand your futile anger here, unless you're a Germany fan. The world generally agrees that Germany sucks this go-round, despite homefield advantage.
Germany will advance out of their group, but don't expect much after that. No one can seriously consider this German team a legitimate contender for the Cup. That defense is going to be shredded in the elimination rounds. Maybe Kahn can have a miracle game or two. But, I don't see much else.
This may be true to some degree. But it doesn't explain to me why 1 v 1 battles were being won by US players more often than not. I'm not judging by a single game, I watch a fair amount of the Bundesliga too. But 1 v 1 in a world cup atmosphere, the best players should stand out, even on a bad day. And the US players certainly did not have a good day, not by a long shot. Lahm was wholly unimpressive. Small and tentative, he'd get roasted in the WC if he had to cover Ronaldinho or Arjen Robben or whoever. A defender, even a wingback, needs to be physically imposing. Lahm looks like a child out there. He is a sad excuse for a world class wingback IMO. I agree, tactics may play a role. But one v one, tactics play little role. Kerry Zavagnin held his own this game one v one. He couldn't hold his own in MLS. How on Earth can you explain this to me? I'm not saying the German players are bad, certainly their among the best in the world. But they aren't as good as the best, they are not as good as Brazil, Argentina etc etc. and I'd argue the US players are entirely on par with the Germans player for player (which is something I wouldn't say for the US vs. England...though BocaFan will probably try to distort my words to make it seem so).
And? Slovakia beat Germany 2:0, and China only lost 1:0 to the Germans in 2005. Yet if you look at the relative pedigree of the players involved, it's distinctly one-sided. Once again, you're confusing team play with the quality of individual players. IMO, if Germany had a coach with some actual tactical expertise (for example, Ottmar Hitzfeld), the overall play of the German would probably have looked much different. As much as I liked the breath of fresh air that Klinsmann brought in to the squad initially, his shortcomings have been clearly exposed for all to see.
You're an idiot German who is angry because your team sucks. Multiple other posters agree. They suck, they have no chance of doing well this World Cup and as soon as they face a real world power they'll get eliminated. Them's the facts. I don't know what the problem is, but it appears there just aren't any truly world class German players. You can hire and fire 5000 coaches, it doesn't matter. With the weak player pool you have you'll never win the World Cup. I can't believe you got to the finals of '02...it required a ridiculously lucky draw and no call vs. the US. It will require even more this time around. It's too bad the German team is so bad now, as winning the WC at home would be truly exciting for them. But unfortunately, it's gotta be a 1/1000 chance.
You obviously haven't seen much of Lahm then. In spite of his short stature, he can be quite physical and hold his own against much larger opponents. Similar to... I don't know... Cherundolo... Lahm also has european and international experience, and has done quite well against quality opponents. He's the least of Germany's worries in the back four.
And? What's your point? Doesn't this corroborate the idea that the Germans are heavily overrated, at least based on their club pedigree? And Slovakia is pretty good, as is China. Tactics and coaches can only be blamed for so much. The German player pool talent level has been in a steady drop for years. It seems as though the drop has no end in sight.
No, Germany did win that one 1:0 with a PK from Frings (the women lost 1:0 to China recently though). But yeah, it was an embarrassing game.
Shows what you know I guess. There's plenty of young talents emerging currently, too early for 2006 though. An example of where things are actually going right in German football currently, is the U21 squad coached by Dieter Eilts. They're a talented group of players, and are playing solid football. They are among the favorites at the European U21 championships.
I admit, I haven't seen much of Lahm. Maybe he had a bad game. I don't know. I could go on and pick others, of course. The German centerbacks looked quite suspect. The forwards were ineffectual when 1 v 1 vs the US defenders who are actually World Cup bound (Cherundolo, Mastroeni, Gibbs).
Wow.......did you choke on a bratwurst or did you have a bad one night stand with a fraeulein ??? Other than that I just can't explain the total junk you are putting out here. I tell you what, sit back, relax and have a good Bavarian Hefeweizen beer! Trust me. The brain fogginess will go away, your hallucinations will stop and your thought processes will no longer be impaired. Good luck.... Zwanzigoetzel