UNC's starting 11

Discussion in 'College & Amateur Soccer' started by LuvDaBears, Sep 23, 2003.

  1. LuvDaBears

    LuvDaBears New Member

    Sep 4, 2002

    I really find this funny. Elmar is mister defense, and all he's cared about the past two seasons is recruiting defenders since Jackson and Leetch, etc., graduated. He didn't start one defender against UVA. On UVA's goal, it looked like Odgers, the "midfielder turned right back" was burned big time. How this guy is starting defies logic. A real defender would have cleared that ball.
    How come mister defense can't recruit defenders?
    The only player listed as a defender on the roster is Allison, and he came in off the bench.

    C'mon cantona24, I'm sure you'll have something to say about this.

    By the way, I think Duke beats UNC tomorrow night.
  2. cantona24

    cantona24 New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Well, Well...

    one loss to a decent team, and the pot shots come out in full force.

    First things first...since when is Elmar Mr. Defense? I don't have any clue where you got that name from. And personally, if I were the coach and lost Jackson, Leitch, and Stokes within two years to MLS, yeah I'd be recruiting defenders too. Still, I wouldn't say that Ashe, Harrington, Watson, some of the boys from Raleigh are defenders at all. What are you talking about? Do you have a kid who is an attacker who didn't get recruited by Elmar or something?

    For you to put so much emphasis on whether or not a player is listed as a defender on the official roster is ridiculous. The back four all season has been Odgers, Porter, Merritt, and McGinty. Porter has always been a defensive player, even when he played in midfield...he was basically a stopper. Merritt played back there all last year. He was recruited as a attacking mid, and the fact that he is a successful center back now is something Elmar can take some credit for, though I'm sure you won't allow that. And McGinty is in the same boat. He was a forward, but for the good of the team last year, couldn't get in the rotation up top, with Kneipper, Testo, Storey, Gell. He's too good a player to leave on the bench, so he played in the back a good deal last year. So you've got 3 guys with experience and Odgers. Odgers is a freshman, and if he made a mistake on the goal then that is what it is--a mistake. If he continues to make mistakes, he won't be playing.

    I'm not sure what your point really was, except to hate on UNC. Feel free to clarify.
  3. SurfsUp

    SurfsUp New Member

    Sep 15, 2003
    I'm new to this board, and trying to get something out of your post. Please help me out here. Tell me if I get something wrong, or what I missed....

    - UNC has given up 4 goals in 7 games

    - UNC brought in 14 freshman, 2 transfers though I believe it was many of the freshman that recruited UNC and not the other way around. Smart move for Elmar to let them come to UNC to get them off the street or playing for the competition. The focus was clearly replacing the the seniors up top and in the middle. After the fact, Pause and Stokes moved on leaving an interesting situation in the back.

    - Elmar has a current back line of 4 guys (regardless of what the roster says about position) that is not giving up a lot of goals. Where does 4 goals in 7 games place them in the ACC? McGinty and Porter - Seniors, Merritt - Junior, and Odgers - Freshman.

    - On set plays, it appears that UNC puts fresman Odgers on the largest target, that would be freshman Cristman at UVA. Vide's serve to the far post came to Littlefield who came in from the top of the box to get his head to the ball before Williams got to it. "burned big time?" Are you saying Odgers was on Littlefield? or on the far post? Please tell me what I missed here. Sorry, he seems to be defending and distributing pretty well, and had one of their nicest goals of the year at NH. Maybe that's why he's playing.

    - UNC is exceeding expectations at this point of the season.

    - Congrats to UVA on the win! A one goal loss at Klockner in a game that becomes quite different if Storey is on-side. This game helps UVA get things turned back around and shows UNC that there are certainly areas for improvement.

    - Looking forward to UNC-Duke tonight!
  4. LuvDaBears

    LuvDaBears New Member

    Sep 4, 2002
    Go to UVA's website and check out the goal yourself. Also, on that goal, make sure you listen to the audio.

    Here's what I'm saying about Mr. Defense. Why can't he recruit defenders? Why are defenders like Kyle Helton going to Duke, and not UNC? How about Curfman, a NC kid and a CASL kid, yet he chose Wake over UNC? Ryan Solle, U-18 MF/D, a NC kid, chose Wake over UNC? Bolowich has said for two years now that his priority is recruiting defenders. Looks to me like he hasn't done that. Odgers is in over his head...he's not good. Porter is a MF, and a good one, being forced to play in the back, just like Logan Pause last year. Ever ask yourself why Logan left early? I know the answer, do you? Logan didn't leave early because he couldn't wait any longer to grab the "riches" of playing in MLS. Imagine how good UNC could be if Logan had stayed for his senior season. Merritt is a good MF also, but he's forced to play in the back. Elmar will tell you that he puts his best player at center back...and that would be Porter....but the guy is a good MF and would be a lot happier in the center of the park.

    So why can't Elmar recruit defenders? Why is he forced to recruit mids and then try to turn them into defenders? Other schools in the ACC are successfully recruiting defenders....even Rennie at Duke.

    Here's a prediction. Duke probably won't beat UNC, but NC State is going to give UNC's back line fits! The Pack will win.
  5. terp fan

    terp fan New Member

    Nov 21, 2000
    a trend?

  6. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    I think it's unfair to say Elmar can't recruit defenders.

    Gregg Berhalter
    Eddie Pope
    Carey Talley
    Tim Sahaydak
    Eddie Robinson
    Danny Jackson
    Chris Leitch
    David Stokes

    All these guys are defenders. All these guys played in MLS or are still in MLS 'cept for the one who is a World Cupper and a veteran of European first divisions. All these guys played for Elmar.

    Some of the above players were converted to defender once they got to UNC. Obviously that didn't negatively impact their careers.

    So he converts some players to defense. So the *#*#*#*#*# what? Happens all the time. As the other poster noted, it hasn't hurt them that much as they haven't given up too many goals.

    This happens constantly, at every level. Should Ajax be dumped on because they converted John O'Brien to a back? Should Bruce Arena for using Tony Sanneh in the back? What about Rangers when they used Claudio Reyna at right back or Thomas Rongen and Lothar Osiander for converting Frankie Hejduk and Greg Vanney? How about Trevor Adair for converting Ricky Lewis to defender or John Ellinger for doing the same thing with Jon Spector?

    I don't know much about UNC's current backs. Some of them may end up in the pros, but maybe not. But, they are doing their jobs right now and just because Elmar has to convert a few players to back rather than backs he recruited doesn't mean there's a glaring hole in the program.

    LDB, I understand you don't like UNC and Elmar. That's fine and the dislike makes rivalries interesting. But getting on the defense for this really seems like a stretch and damages your credibility.
  7. k1v1n

    k1v1n New Member

    May 4, 2002
    Re: a trend?

  8. k1v1n

    k1v1n New Member

    May 4, 2002
    Sorry about that last post being a tad off thread. Let me bring it back to UNC with this one.

    When you look at the teams that make it to the College Cup Finals they have one distinquishing characteristic in common---they don't give up goals, any goals! In fact, the best teams sport records with 85%+ shutouts. UNC has the worst shutout record of any current team in the top 10 (using Top Drawer Soccer's poll). In that regard, the UNC defense is not getting it done.

    Here they are:

    1. Maryland.......6......................7
    2. UCLA..............4......................6
    3. St Louis..........4......................6
    4. Santa Clara.. 5.....................7
    5. ODU..................5.....................5
    6. SMU.................4......................7
    7. St John's........4......................7
    8. UAB..................5......................7
    9. USC..................6......................7
  9. LuvDaBears

    LuvDaBears New Member

    Sep 4, 2002
    Sand on my butt: All I was trying to point out, is that Elmar has been preaching for two years about finding true defenders...and he hasn't been able to do it. Duke, UVA, Clemson, Wake...they all have successfully recruited defenders during the last two years, Carolina has not. If you ask me, it's because those defenders are saying NO to him, and going elsewhere.

    Here's the other thing. When players like Logan are forced to play center back, they don't like it, and that doesn't help team chemistry. That is a fact.
    Last year, Bolowich wasted Logan in the back.

    When I look at Maryland...I see true defenders like Goodson anchoring the defense, and true midfielders like Buete and Herrera taking care of the middle. Personally, I think when you start moving players all over the place, you're asking for trouble, unless the player is someone like Logan who has a great deal of talent to play several positions.

    Plus,the previous UNC defenders you named are gone...ancient history...I'm talking about the present.
  10. gsterp

    gsterp Member+

    Jul 16, 2003
    College Park
    Clarence Goodson and Seth Stammler were both forwards their freshmen years at Maryland. Kenny Bertz and Chris Lancos were midfielders in high school before moving to defense under Sasho. Also, Herrera was a forward when he arrived at Maryland, but has dropped back to midfield in order to be able to crack the lineup.

    I'd say that Sasho has been pretty successful moving players around the field in order to get his most skilled guys out there together, regardless of what their "true" position is.
  11. cantona24

    cantona24 New Member

    Apr 26, 2001

    You have yet to make any sense in your arguments...Logan leaving early for MLS may have been, in part, due to his being moved to the back. But a much greater part of his decision was his desire to represent the US at the 2004 Olympics. It's been discussed on these boards that there may be some sort of unspoken agreement between Myernick and the U23 pool that players wishing to make the Olympic team will need to have professional experience. If you look at Logan in MLS, he has played as a defensive midfielder (especially in beginning when Marsch was out with injury). The part of his game that has impressed Sarachan is his ability to read the game and win balls in midfield. Sarachan has only criticized his ability/willingness to go forward, which will come with experience.

    As far as Elmar proclaiming over the last 2 years that he is trying to recruit defenders: where are you getting this information. Elmar tends to recruit quality players who are solid all around individuals. I think if you asked him that would be his answer. By getting in quality players, he is then able to shift them around within his system, allowing the best players to be on the field.

    Finally, recruiting is a tough job, and it's no surprise that players are going to other schools in the ACC. The ACC is the best place to play in the country(with apologies to all the West coast fans). Players make decisions for any number of reasons. Elmar gives few to no full scholarships, and it may be that when big time players are not offered full deals, their egos tell them to go other places. Wake was #1 in the nation for a majority of last year, and it's no surprise that some will want to go there. No school is able to get every recruit...and your dislike for Elmar is giving you a very narrow view of the situation.
  12. LuvDaBears

    LuvDaBears New Member

    Sep 4, 2002

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