Ukraine vs Russia III

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by argentine soccer fan, May 16, 2023.

  1. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    This is a reasonable take on why the fall of Assad hurts Russia

    1865804869992398858 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  2. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
  3. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is Transnistria the next Russian area to collapse? The leader of the Russian occupied region has declared a 30-day state of economic emergency as it will be cut off from cheap Russian natural gas and oil at the start of the year as Ukraine will stop allowing Russia's use of the pipelines that cross Ukraine. Moldova does not have a military to speak of, so if Transnistria falls, it will be via internal collapse rather than Moldova kicking them out.

    https://kyivindependent.com/transnistria-declares-economic-emergency-over-russian-gas-supply-threat/
     
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  4. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  5. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Straws in the wind, part . . . whatever.
    "M Video", Russia's 2nd largest seller of consumer electronics, employing 30,000 people in circa 1,200 stores is one of the success stories of the post-Soviet economy.
    They've just announced that, due to the collapse in of mobile phone sales, they will begin buying, refurbishing, and selling used phones.
    Ex-Soviets just love their gizmos, the newer the better. Money no object. Not a sign of good consumer sentiment

     
  6. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Tendar is one of those writers who is always worth reading. Even when he's wrong, which isn't often, he makes you think and you always learn something interesting.
     
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  7. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    This map - from Rybar's TG channel - shows how important the Syrias bases are as the key hub for Russian operations in Africa.
    The loss of Syria as a refueling and logistics point would undermine all of Russian efforts on the continent.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    So yet another level of Russian pain where you think the people would raise up and remove Putin. We'll see.
     
  9. goliath74

    goliath74 Member

    May 24, 2006
    Hollywood, FL, United States
    Club:
    FC Dynamo Kyiv
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    I do not think their "people" are there yet. But, I am curious about the elites. They will be the first to feel the pinch if they don't already.
     
  10. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    The elites have been disappearing at a rapid trace. There's also the caveat that as a Bolivian I am used to seeing grassroot overthrows. Russia is apparently not anything close to Bolivia.
     
  11. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do the people really care about Russia's operations in Africa? They don't even care about the 1,000 casualties a day that they are suffering in Ukraine, why would they care about their operations in Africa having issues?
     
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  12. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a moneymaker for the Russian state and a symbol of its prestige. If Russia no longer makes money off of these ventures and the state appears incapable of power projection, there's not much use for the elites making their lives better.
     
  13. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But that's only the elites. Even then, that population is rapidly shrinking thanks to their proclivity to fall from high places.
     
  14. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Either the factions overthrow Putin or he runs out of people to staff the government. Russia's a big place and needs a lot of people doing things to keep it together.

    The collapse of the Russian Federation won't look like a collapse at first. It'll be some squabble in the Caucasus or a revolt in some tiny town in Siberia. It's the fact that the Russian state won't have the resources to put it down that will signal the Russian Federation is collapsing. If Putin kills off too many elite Muscovites or St. Petersburg-ians (Petersborgians?), there will be nobody to hold the line in the regions.
     
  15. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I should have specified that I was talking about their economic collapse.
     
  16. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But such a collapse won't happen in the very near future will it? And I'm not sure it will be because Russia can't maintain their African missions. A much, much bigger impact is the drop of oil and natural gas revenue due to the Ukrainian war.
     
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  17. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    hard to predict these things but the problem for Russian resistance is it is very hard to organise because it’s a totalitarian state.
     
  18. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Even a lean industry such as the oil industry -- you don't need a lot of people to administer oil production -- requires a large bureaucracy to transfer its benefits to the public. Petrostates survive by bribing the public with public goods and direct transfers. If workers are afraid to work in Russia (conscription) and the state cannot physically transfer money to its citizens (fewer bureaucrats), then economic collapse doesn't have to be Venezuela.

    Another way to describe what I'm saying is there aren't any countries in recent history that have voluntarily decided to shred their population in the way Russia has. Examples from history don't look great for Russia in the short, medium, and long run. Depopulation *is* economic collapse.
     
  19. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    this is why the best negotiating strategy would be for Trump to flood the zone with weapons and for european nations to put troops in.

    might as well escalate to deescalate.
     
  20. It worked the last time when the Soviet Union collapsed under the weight of having to match the Hot Cold War arms race.
     
  21. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not wrong, but Russia has a lot of petro to state with. ;) Obviously, that's hit a pretty major blip since the invasion, but I fully expect the petrodollars to flow back into the elites bank accounts if/when the war ends. Of course, the going question is when the war will end and if it will be in time to stop the elites from doing something about their diminishing bank accounts.

    I dunno.. I think China is competing really hard with Russia on voluntarily shedding their population. But point taken.
     
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  22. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Peterbourgeoisieses.
     
  23. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    It's also very, very big with rather few means of transport between different regions. Rather easy to cut off a city of 500k or so that's become restive and feed the rest of the country a line of BS until the unrest has been put down.

    Georgia, by contrast is quite small and although Ukraine is big, the centre and West are rather more densely populated with plenty of transport routes between cities
     
  24. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    #10824 The Irish Rover, Dec 9, 2024
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2024
    1866156271033851940 is not a valid tweet id

    IMO the relevance of being pushed out of the bases is twofold. The first is that the job of a boss is to recognize when the organization is on a loser, cut the losses and GTFO. Syria ending as a write-off is seriously embarrassing but being chased out - on camera - by a ragtag militia in 10 days time will be utter humiliation

    The second is that the point of the Syria adventure was to prove that "Russia is back, baby!" as a superpower. That Russia's wishes need to be taken into account. So is invading Ukraine, only more so and with far more at stake if it goes wrong. Syria has, badly.

    VIPs are very quietly asking why Ukraine will end differently.
     
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  25. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Russia inserts itself in places like Mali with Wagner groups to help “protect” gold mining assets. Gold is important to Russia.
     

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