Ukraine vs Russia III

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by argentine soccer fan, May 16, 2023.

  1. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    There's never been a better time for Mossad and HUR to get together for joint projects, by which I mean operations not collection and analysis

    Those two orgs have the cajones and moxie to do some serious damage to Russia and Iran. Won't happen with Netanyahu of course, but it's the way things are heading

     
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  2. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    I appreciate all the info everyone drops here. It is really enlightening.

    However, we are intentionally sidestepping the dread of a Russian/Putin commitment to a long drawn-out war, that really needs to keep going in perpetuity as far as Russia is concerned.

    We keep hoping that Russians will grow weary of the war, but they are already worn down. They are fatalistic. It is awful to think of all the Ukrainian lives being burnt up in this quixotic Russian Imperialist fever dream, but here we are.

    I don't know how this ends well. I don't know how this ends without some incredibly awful result, worse than what we have already witnessed.

    Sorry for the pessimism. Slava Ukraini! Героям слава!
     
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  3. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I do think you have a valid point. Putin will never turn because this is existential for him. The common people won't turn because they are Russian. Most of the oligarchs are getting rich off the war economy. The inner circle is now family, sycophants, and true believers. They have allies and useful idiots all over the world. Russia is gearing itself for forever war.

    But there's still some Russians in the middle; of the government, of the military and intelligence, of the economy, of society. People that have something. And what people who have something fear is losing that something. The war has to progress to a place where those people feel threatened. I don't think we've really started that yet. But various trend lines are headed towards that direction, and are doing so inexorably. The battle of the economies is the most important front of the war. And I do think Ukraine is acting like they think this way as well.
     
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  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I remember one of the WOTR guys saying after 6 months that Russia strategically lost the war, but the problem is making them realise that. As history shows, countries can continue lost wars for years where the politics favour it.
     
  5. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mate they lost the war 73 hours in when their column to Kyiv stalled.
     
  6. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    in hindsight yes - but it was not immediately clear the Donbas offensive would fail.

    the '22 Ukrainian counter offensive was the moment the war was obviously strategically lost IMO
     
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  7. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think you are wrong here. As noted by spejic, Putin can't afford to lose, the civilians don't seem to care too much, and the Oligarchs are lining their pockets. I think changing the minds of the civilians was one of the goals of the Kursk offensive. The hope was that having Ukraine occupy a portion of Russia would "bring the war home" so to speak.. That doesn't seem to have worked, unfortunately.

    As far as what causes the war to end.. Russia seems to be within a year or two of draining their wealth fund. If that happens, it will be hard for Russia to fund the war. While there are certainly ways to extend the war beyond the point where money runs out, no one is going to take Russian debt and the oligarchs aren't going to accept Russia raiding their bank accounts to pay for the war...
     
  8. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    On this point. It won't work unless Ukraine is literally bombing one of a handful of major Russian cities. I just spoke to someone who was a consultant for McKinsey in Moscow (until very recently) and he's from far east of Russia (Vladivostok), but he spends most of the time in Moscow and wherever his travels take him. He basically said that while people are "aware" of this war, nobody really cares, nobody really questions anything, and people continue living their normal lives. Ukrainians occupying some irrelevant (as far as they are concerned) small towns in the Kursk oblast' is not going to change anything for the public.
     
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  9. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure what happened, but after a week or more of Russia putting up pontoon bridges over the Seym River and Ukraine blowing them up, Russia seems to have gotten enough troops across the bridge to launch a large scale attack in the area. There are some saying a TDF brigade was overrun, while others are saying there were "large" scale territory gain by Russia in the area, while others are saying that while Russia did take a few positions, they did not get that much territory back.





    So.. I guess we wait until we get videos from one of the side showing where the Russians are?
     
  10. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
     
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  11. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Blinken's in Kiev with UK foreign secretary Lammay and others.

    Speaking in a joint press conference Blinken just said the magic words "we want Ukraine to win."
     
  12. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    #9737 The Irish Rover, Sep 11, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2024
    Multiple and conflicting reports of Russia, despite losing numerous pontoon bridges, having accumulated enough forces to launch counter attacks on the western flank of the Ukrainian salient this morning, mostly from the area between the Seym and the border. They are apparently making some tactical gains, including retaking some villages. See the red arrows in the map below..

    Ukraine is in turn launching attacks in the west of that area, where the blue arrow is and to its west, threatening their rear and their supply lines. [​IMG]
     
  13. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A Russian SU-30 reportedly crashed over the Black Sea after launching missiles at targets near Odessa.

     
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  14. Look at the watch..
     
  15. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    ???
     
  16. To me not a watch a Russian soldier carries/wears.
     
  17. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Send it
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fighterbomber has confirmed the loss of the Su-30.



    I'm also seeing reports that the SU-30 was shot down.
     
  19. goliath74

    goliath74 Member

    May 24, 2006
    Hollywood, FL, United States
    Club:
    FC Dynamo Kyiv
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    It appears that Russian counteroffensive in Kursk Oblast is petering out. They may have forced some insignificant advances and had taken a few villages, but are no longer able to achieve significant break-through
     
  20. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    The Turkish grain ship MV Aya had left a Ukrainian port and was in Romanian waters when it was hit by a Russian Kh-22 anti-ship missile fired from a T-22M bomber.

    The Russians do use Kh-22 missiles against purely military ground targets such as apartment blocks and supermarkets, so this might be an accident. Or not.

    There does not seem to be any casualties, but there is a massive hole in the ship and Egypt won't be getting their grain any time soon.

    https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...ip-hit-by-russian-kh-22-missile-in-black-sea/
     
  21. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    The Russians found an oil slick, but not much else. The 2 crew are most likely dead.

    The current reporting is that it was a MANPADS that was installed on a Ukrainian naval drone that did it. We've known that Ukraine has been fitting short range SAMs to these drones for around a year, usually to try to spring a reverse card on helicopters trying to hunt them. For some reason this Su-30 was flying pretty low.
     
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  22. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Over the last few weeks Ukraine's probably blown up a dozen pontoon bridges that the Russians put up on the Seym river in the Kursk region. It seems they are trying a new tactic. Ukraine is now waiting for troop concentrations and high value vehicles to cross these natural chokepoints and then track them to a location where they can be hit by drone, artillery, or GMLRS missiles.
     
  23. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    The Su-30 is the pride of Russian aviation and a good seller overseas. But its more recent made-for-Russia versions had a lot of French components, including navigation systems, heads-up display, cockpit screens, and radios, which were made by the French companies Thales and Safran. Since the war started these systems have gotten increasingly difficult to service (although there were some holes in the sanctions), and while there is a program to replace them with Russian equivalents, those are also made of components that are made overseas and are slow to get.

    We now know the way Russia gets around this is by sending the aircraft to Kazakhstan to be serviced there.
     
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  24. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Funny you should mention that.. Here is a Russian remote mine laying vehicle being obliterated shortly after it drove off a pontoon bridge.

     
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  25. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    The Insider's Michael Weiss has a source quite high up in Estonian intelligence named "Karl" probably it former director, the serving director or one of the deputies. A new thread has dropped which, as always, is very insightful. The whole thing is worth reading. Money quote:
     
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