Ukraine v Russia II

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by crazypete13, Apr 20, 2022.

  1. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This news is like 3 weeks old.
     
  2. :rolleyes:
    What do you want? Old news or fake news?:D
     
  3. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I don't think this will work as you might expect. I've said repeatedly that China can't afford to upset the West greatly because their private enterprises are in trouble and the need Western business and investment. But after the 20th National Congress, it looks like Xi's solution is to screw private business and start enacting communism with planned economy characteristics. He's bringing back the communal canteen and the supply and distribution cooperatives, which was how food - from farm to table - was managed under Mao. It's small scale now, but growing.
     
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  4. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They'd probably work for anyone that can get them out of Afghanistan and give them a job. I doubt they care about the politics of the conflict, one way or the other.
     
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  5. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure there is a significant difference in being stuck in Afghanistan and being a soldier in the Russian military. They are, quite obviously much better trained than your average Russian professional soldier (not counting mobilized or conscripts), but they would still be impacted by the poor decisions by the Russian military and are far more likely to die making a human wave attack in the Donbass region...
     
  6. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Boris Johnson reveals some of the European nations earlier position on the war
    French - Denial until the last minute
    Germans - Wished for a quick Russian victory if the war was going to happen
    Italians - Against the UK position
     
  7. Millions died because of starvation, due to the politics of that socalled great chairman with farming.
     
  8. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Namibia
    Insanely dishonest area man makes wild claims casting himself as saviour

    wow!
     
  9. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I agree about Johnson but I tend to think he's telling the truth about Germany and Italy in this case.
     
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  10. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I was referring more to the question of the relationship to NATO.
     
  11. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    Yes but when liars tell the truth it is always an error of theirs, never their intent.
     
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  12. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    NATO's main mission in northern Afghanistan was to train Afghan army soldiers.
     
  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Namibia
    The german view was the same view of the US intelligence!

    i.e Ukraine would collapse within a few days

    UK thought the same thing - the view in the west changed only in the first week when it suddenly became clear Kiev might not fall
     
  14. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    True enough.

    If you listen carefully he simply says that the German view was that, 'If it was going to happen, which would be a disaster, it would better if it was over quickly'.

    I think that's probably correct... that that was their view at the very beginning I mean.
     
  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Namibia
    But isn't that view the logical one, given western intelligence believed ukraine stood no chance?
     
  16. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    TBH I'm not sure his statement there is significantly different to the view of most western security services. I'm also not sure it paints him out to be a hero, particularly, or especially prescient.

    But I think it probably IS true that the UK and also the US started supplying large amounts of military assistance pretty early, not least because we'd been the ones providing military training before the invasion as part of operation orbital.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Orbital
     
  17. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I agree there. The only difference is that we were more heavily involved prior to the invasion so were probably more inclined to continue to supply higher quantities of direct military aid, particularly lethal aid.
     
  18. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mentioned that Saab was on the verge of getting a contract to build a 140km range rocket to launch Boeing built small diameter bombs that is compatible with HIMARS, well, turns out that Turkey has already given them an undetermined number of 150km missiles.



    The missiles don’t seem to be GPS guided, rather they need to be laser guided. So they need to be illuminated by someone on the ground, or by a TB2 in the air..
     
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  19. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Ukraine shot down 51 of the 70 missiles that were launched by Russia today, but those missiles that got through did a lot of damage. Odessa and Kyiv have no running water, internet over the whole nation is mostly down, and even Moldova is blacked out.
     
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  20. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Saab? They'll sit in the repair shop for weeks.
     
  21. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Moldova should declare war on Russia
     
  22. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
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  23. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Tell me about it.

    My 9-3 convertible was down for months with a bad radiator (couldn't find a replacement)and a couple of other things. I ended up dumping it to a guy who rebuilds Saabs, so he could use it for parts.

    Great car, but a pain in the ass.
     
  24. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    I love diplomat-speak
     
  25. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's interesting is that I started following several analysts on Twitter as things were heating up in late January-early February, who disagreed with the prevailing wisdom on how Ukraine would do. These were guys who had actual on-the-ground experience with the Ukrainian military, and they expected the Ukrainians to put up a much better fight.

    We're so used to our allies being feckless, that we don't expect them to be competent.
     
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