I love the "Swiss system", they always use it in chess. You can have 100-150 teams play in a tournament. Why not have a 150-team European league, with every country represented? And every country can have a 100-team national league, with no need for promotion/relegation at all. I am not being sarcastic.
Well, there's a Christmas gift in the making for the SL initiators: https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/barcelona-must-cut-wage-bill-22935684
https://www.fifa.com/who-we-are/news/statement-by-fifa-and-the-six-confederations About FIFA Statement by FIFA and the six confederations (FIFA.com) 21 Jan 2021 In light of recent media speculation about the creation of a closed European 'Super League' by some European clubs, FIFA and the six confederations (AFC, CAF, Concacaf, CONMEBOL, OFC and UEFA) once again would like to reiterate and strongly emphasise that such a competition would not be recognised by either FIFA or the respective confederation. Any club or player involved in such a competition would as a consequence not be allowed to participate in any competition organised by FIFA or their respective confederation. As per the FIFA and confederations statutes, all competitions should be organised or recognised by the relevant body at their respective level, by FIFA at the global level and by the confederations at the continental level. In this respect, the confederations recognise the FIFA Club World Cup, in its current and new format, as the only worldwide club competition while FIFA recognises the club competitions organised by the confederations as the only club continental competitions. The universal principles of sporting merit, solidarity, promotion and relegation, and subsidiarity are the foundation of the football pyramid that ensures football’s global success and are, as such, enshrined in the FIFA and confederation statutes. Football has a long and successful history thanks to these principles. Participation in global and continental competitions should always be won on the pitch. Gianni Infantino – FIFA President Shaikh Salman bin Ebrahim Al Khalifa – AFC President Constant Omari – CAF Acting President Vittorio Montagliani – Concacaf President Alejandro Domínguez – CONMEBOL President Lambert Maltock – OFC President Aleksander Čeferin – UEFA President
The socalled superclubs are desperate about the financial covid losses incurred and start looking for unicorns solutions. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...opean-super-league?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other Covid impact puts European super league plan back in play Liverpool and Manchester United among clubs discussing plan Fifa threatens to ban clubs which join breakaway league Any player participating in a breakaway European Super League has been told they face a ban from the World Cup. Photograph: Fifa/Getty Images David Conn Thu 21 Jan 2021 13.23 GMT Last modified on Fri 22 Jan 2021 04.36 GMT Concrete proposals for a European super league are being discussed by top clubs including Manchester United and Liverpool with more seriousness because of the financial impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, the Guardian understands. As I already mentioned the UEFA has the backing of the EU and as such can organize competitions/matches across borders under certain conditions that willnot be available to other organizers. https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-uefa-superleague-opposition-ceferin-von-der-leyen-meeting/ EU backs UEFA opposition to European football ‘super league’ Football should not be ‘reserved for the rich and the powerful,’ says Commission vice president. The one thing the "investors" mentioned to be behind this sl (Americans and Asian billionaires) donot get is the fact the template of this sl is based on closed leagues within one country, the USA. The EU isnot the USA, it's a union of independent states with borders and own laws. Brexit has added another dimension to it. Epl clubs willnot have free access to the continent, because they willnot have the backing of the UEFA with agreements with the EU. UEFA President Aleksander Čeferin has met with senior EU figures | Franck Fife/AFP via Getty Images By Ali Walker January 21, 2021 8:11 pm The European Commission on Thursday backed UEFA as the European football federation launched a bid to block the creation of a continental “super league.” “There is no scope for the few to distort the universal and diverse nature of European football,” said Margaritis Schinas, European Commission vice president. “The European way of life is not compatible with European football being reserved for the rich and the powerful.” He spoke as the game’s governing bodies were aiming to stop Europe’s elite clubs from setting up a pan-continental league. They are floating bans on potential super league players from taking part in the World Cup and other major tournaments, according to a letter published Thursday by FIFA — world football’s governing body — and signed by global football chiefs. UEFA President Aleksander Čeferin, who signed the letter, has met in recent months with Schinas and other senior EU policymakers on a range of subjects from vaccines to climate action. The “need to safeguard solidarity in European sport” was also discussed, according to people familiar with the meetings. Čeferin also talked about the “importance of protecting the fundamental aspects of the European model of sport” with European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, during a wide-ranging videoconference in December, according to the UEFA website. Critics of the super league — which would dispense with promotion and relegation — say it would undermine the trickle-down economics of football, particularly in less-wealthy countries where cash from elite competitions flows down to support grassroots sport. “Any club or player involved in such a competition would as a consequence not be allowed to participate in any competition organised by FIFA or their respective confederation,” said the FIFA letter, which was endorsed by football governing bodies from Africa, Asia, Europe, Oceania, North America and South America. Such a ban would include football’s top competitions, including the World Cup, European Championships, Copa America and Europe’s Champions League. “We must protect our European sports model, which relies on a balance between club and national competitions, and is meant to ensure the development of the game in an open and non-discriminatory way,” said Schinas. It is unclear whether such a ban would be legally enforceable. The exclusion of top players would certainly dilute the quality of the World Cup — and could theoretically lead to more breakaway international competitions. According to a proposal seen by the Times, founder members of the super league would be offered up to €350 million each to join the competition. Andrea Agnelli, chairman of Italian giant Juventus and boss of the European Clubs Association, is one of the principal cheerleaders for reforming the structure of elite European football. He has pitched the competition as a “progressive” step for football. “If we are not progressive, we are simply protecting a system that is no longer there, a system that is made of domestic games that will have little interest for our kids,” he said in 2019. Criticism of the super league plan has also come from the European Parliament. “I find the speculation on a closed super league of elite clubs in European football very alarming. I welcome and support UEFA’s strong position against this,” said MEP Tomasz Frankowski, co-chair of the Parliament’s sports group and a former professional footballer. “Sport is a right for everyone, not just an elite group. We must protect and promote the European sports model.” During his talks with senior EU officials, Čeferin also met Parliament President David Sassoli in December. Experts point to a clash between the pyramid structure of the game around Europe and the economic ambitions of behemoth clubs. “The promotion-and-relegation system is one factor that makes football competition attractive to fans, and abolishing it would represent a significant loss,” said Stefan Szymanski, an economist and author of the book “Soccernomics.” “But promotion and relegation undermines the economic profitability of the big clubs — so they have a financial incentive to abolish it.”
This article in a nutshell tells what I've been claiming about the sl clubs. https://www.espn.com/soccer/brazili...ves-as-warning-to-europes-super-league-dreams This article in a nutshell tells what I've been claiming about the sl clubs. https://www.espn.com/soccer/brazili...ves-as-warning-to-europes-super-league-dreams Fan unrest in Brazil serves as warning to Europe's super league dreams Tim VickerySouth America correspondent Some players in the Brazilian league may be relieved that games are being played behind closed doors at the moment, as it limits the opportunities that angry fans have to protest. Even so, furious supporters can still gather at airports and training grounds, and it is not only teams at the wrong end of the table who can feel the force of the fury. Sao Paulo and Flamengo are the leading candidates to win the league table but, in the last few months, even players from these clubs have had abuse hurled at them or seen insulting slogans daubed on the walls of their training ground. In part these are manifestations of an angry society. The old tourist myth of Brazil as a happy-go-lucky land of the contented has crumbled in the light of the political events of recent times. But there is also something else, a factor intrinsic to Brazilian football, but something which should serve as a severe warning to those in charge of the European club game. - Stream LIVE games and replays on ESPN+ (U.S. only) - Brazilian Serie A Standings Brazil is a country the size of a continent, a fact of geography with significant implications for the development of the game. For decades the transport infrastructure was insufficient for a genuinely national championship. Brazilian football, then, developed as a regional phenomenon. The focus was on the local. There were prototypes, but a national league only came into being in 1971. Until around 25 years ago, huge importance was still placed on the state championships, one for each of the 27 states which make up this giant country. It was under this approach that so many clubs accumulated the titles and the prestige to be thought of as giants. The heartlands of the south east and the south -- Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paulo, Belo Horizonte and Porto Alegre -- contain the acknowledged 12 giant clubs, a total that does not even include clubs from further north with mass support. The last few decades have seen an important switch. Brazilian club football has moved from a regional to a national approach. The state championships still exist, but they have lost their shine. Their time has been cut back, and even so, they are viewed as tournaments which are now little better than unnecessary clutter. This has led to a problem. Clubs are now aiming to win the national league or the domestic cup, or the continental Copa Libertadores. In a sporting culture that is obsessed with winning now that the state championships are an afterthought, there are simply not enough titles left for all of the so-called giant clubs to retain their giant status. In a league that contains 12 giant clubs, someone is doomed to finishing no higher than 12th. And a club that consistently can aspire to nothing more than mid table mediocrity can hardly be called a giant. Botafogo. They supplied a succession of magnificent players to Brazil's World Cup winning sides of 1958, 1962 and 1970, but they are now facing relegation for the third time this century. This is not a huge surprise. Their support base is comparatively small compared to that of their Rio neighbours Flamengo or even Vasco da Gama. In a national environment, when huge gaps have opened up in the amount teams are paid in TV rights, it is hard for Botafogo to be competitive. It is some time since they have gone into the league season with realistic hopes of winning the title -- and that is a tough reality for those brought up on tales of Garrincha, Didi, Nilton Santos, Zagallo, Amarildo and Jairzinho. The transition from regional to national is one guaranteed to breed supporter insatisfaction. Now let's apply this to the hopes of some of Europe's big clubs to set up a continental super league. The parallels are very clear -- it is just a case of imagining Europe as a single country and of seeing the national leagues as akin to Brazil's state championships. And indeed, some of Europe's leagues are already becoming like the state championships: Losing prestige as they lose competitiveness, becoming more predictable as financial chasms open up. A continent-wide super league would start with, say, 20 clubs, all of which would go into the competition with giant status, based on the fact that they win most of their games. But in a 20 team league, someone has to finish 20th, and 19th, and so on. And a club which is losing the majority of its games is soon fated to lose its giant status, and be an intense disappointment to generations of fans who have grown up on titles and glory. A European super league, then, would seem fated to please a few at the top, and prove a major source of dissatisfaction to everyone else. The behaviour of fans in Brazil serves as a warning.
The desperate moves by these clubs chasing unicorns is underlined by the desire to stay in the domestic leagues as a safetynet/important revenue stream, while at the same time wanting to exclude the other clubs in those leagues from profitable supranational matches. The covid must have hit tremendously hard to make these people think they can getaway with this parasite attitude. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-super-league-moves-closer-to-deciding-lineup Business European Soccer ‘Super League’ Moves Closer to Deciding Lineup By David Hellier and Rodrigo Orihuela 8 januari 2021 17:43 CET Organizers working to finalize list of teams for new league Backers hope to publicly unveil plans in next few months From the article: "Some of those approached remain undecided on whether to join the effort, and the timeline for a public announcement could still be pushed back, the people said. Any club that participates would remain in its domestic league but pull out of the UEFA Champions League, which is in the midst of its own restructuring." This is so unbelievable daft, you wonder if anyone with a sense of reality is participating in these plans. Given the reports from september on about Barcelona being in financial trouble by losing out about 300 million€€ because of covid, how on earth do they believe to be able to survive on a 250 million fee from the sl, which is already less than their loss in the La Liga this season. Up till now the rumours were about billions for the clubs, but the current leaked numbers are far from interesting for the top 10 clubs from Europe. It's more than obvious these socalled sl clubs can't chase that without being in their domestic leagues. To put an end to all this nonsense the UEFA should present a CL format that scales down the moneygrab of the topclubs and force them to accept it or take a hike. UEFA's position towards these socalled superclubs hasnot been this strong in a decade.
What's also mystifying is the fact they need JP Morgan to finance it, while all the humbug in the last few years was that a couple of American and Asian billionairs had poured billions in this set up. What happened to those billions?
Billions are gone now, who knows when and if the times of pouring billions into football will return. They will commit a suicide if they start super league. P.S. I would not mind seeing it, but if the clubs relocate to Asian and American market and then burn up there. I am sure no one in Europe wants it.
There's nothing to stop club to start their own SL legally. Nobody can claim that. What they long for however is eating from both shores, the cosy safety of national leagues, while excluding the members of those leagues from the fruits of pan European football. That's what's not going to happen. They will have to totally be on their own in their sl, or conform to the rules of the UEFA/national FA in order to be member of those. What do you think is the choice they have? Each year a measly 250 millon €€ and losing the revenues of the leagues matches? Just take the revenue numbers pro covid of Barcelona and match that with the projected revenues of the sl. Without being member of the national leagues the numbers donot make sense for joining. On top of that national leagues hardly can fold. They're not businesses and donot own clubs, but are facilitators. On top of that the FA's are considered of importance by the European governments. So in the unlikely case a bankruptcy looms the governments will help out. The sl on the other hand is a business with investors and can fold. So joining such an adventure, while having to burn your ships by leaving the leagues, means in another covid like sutuation you're screwed. The cost to run this league are (16 * 350 million) 5.6 billion€€ as a one of sign fee and each year (20*250 million) 5 billion€€ , just for club fees. A pandemic like we have now would anihilate that sl. It's telling they need JP Morgan to find investors for it (at a cost of a couple of hundreds of millions) to find at least 20 billion€€ for two years of club payments and running costs and a contingency fund. The whole humbug the last few years was the money was already there. So why pay JPM a fortune if you already had these investors backing it? The sl on the other hand is a business with investors and can fold. So joining such an adventure, while having to burn your ships by leaving the leagues, means in another covid like sutuation you're screwed. In the normal leagues you as a club are in control of you own future. You determine yourself your success or failure. The league cannot screw it up for you, as they only facilitate the competition. They donot finance it or the clubs in it. In the SL you lose your control over your destiny. You now are completely dependent on how successful the sl is as your finances depend on it. Does the sl at a given moment fail and fold, as a club then you're screwed. Just imagine the sl exists and the 16 top clubs did join. It goes well for a while, but then covid 2.0 hits. The sl now has billions of obligations but no revenues. The 16 clubs now are in trouble, because payments are skipped, while their bills keep coming. Then the investment vehicle of that PSG owner comes in and says, "okay, I buy the sl and save your asses, but only if you agree to slash the yearly fee by 50%". What can the clubs do? Return to the national leagues isnot possible without dire prices to be paid. The sl adventure is a strategic game to be played and all possibilities must be explored. This whole thing seems to have emerged as an opportunity by the superclubs to corner the market and changed into a desperate attempt to fight the covid impact, while still hanging on the greedy MO that put the sl on the table in the first place.
Well, that didnot take long to get an answer to my question about how desperate the superclubs are: Barcelona almost dead, unless they pay before end june. https://www.fcbarcelonanoticias.com...-1-173-million-euros-in-total_264507_102.html CRITICAL SITUATION The debt of the FC Barcelona, in detail: 1.173 million euros in total Editorial FCBN
Like any business, the total amount of debt is less important than the ongoing debt service cost (the periodic payments). It's very (almost zero chance) unlikely that Barca would choose to pay off this liability all at once. Much more likely, they will need to refinance the parts that come due. Luckily global interest rates have decline dramatically since COVID hit. They shouldn't have any issue.
That's true, but for businesses that are running smoothly. To say Barca is running smoothly is a joke. Their players paychecks constitute 75% of their total revenue. That's very unhealthy.
I'd really need to look at it to determine whether the issue derives with that percentage is elevated mainly from revenues being depressed due to COVID's impact. Moreover, paying attention to the distribution of those wages is important in figuring out whether adjustments can be made if in fact wages are the issue. Remove Messi's salary and my assumption is that this figure would decline materially. Overall though, their debt is not an issue if they are able to service it regularly or can refinance over a much longer duration. What would force Barca's hands sporting wise would be if they run foul of FFP.
Just read this article, especially the part about failure to meet debt payments, which is a nono for getting extensions, certainly at reasonable rates: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/12/sports/soccer/barcelona-messi-contract.html "For now, the club has been scrambling to renegotiate some of what it owes with its creditors, but it is likely that any attempt will mean doing so on worse terms."
This will likely shut down any talk about a super league forming in the next decade - CL looking at a major revamp of the group stage format. In fact, there won't be a group stage but rather a single table of 36 teams with each team playing 10 matches. Not unlike the qualifying for the CONCACAF Nations League. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/56325695 Not clear on the details of the proposed new format but it doesn't sound great. If they were going to extend the CL by 4 matches, I'd much rather just turn the round of 16 into a group stage like in the early 2000s.
The core item in this proposal is to gift 4 spots to clubs with history in the Euro Cup competitions, that didnot manage to qualify via their leagues. So if Manunited would end outside the top 4 in the epl, they would receive a wildcard, even if they end up nr 10. It in fact is a degrading of the CL as a serious competition by letting in clubs just because of their names.
Yeah, that would suck as it would reduce the importance of domestic league matches in addition to making CL games less important. Everything gets watered-down with one change to the CL's format. In seasons like this one where its clear who will win the Premier League, a big part of why I am watching the rest of the season is to see who the other 3 teams will be to join Man City in the CL next season.
https://www.si.com/soccer/2021/03/0...gue-elimination-cristiano-ronaldo-pirlo-porto https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/14294226/juventus-crisis-title-bid-finances-ronaldo-pirlo/ This is so gratifying, the shithead Agnelli pushing for priviliges for clubs like Juve, get's shoved on the field of merit.
I'd say he isn't that concerned. During the last few years he only looks over superleague movement, Juventus' fails in CL are not so big of a problem. As far as I think.
It seems the UEFA and the top clubs are conspiring to form a joint venture to make the reformed CL a legal entity on it's own.
The Swiss Model is stupid. The beauty of European club soccer is that it is symmetrical with a simple, easy to understand pyramid....or rather a series of interlocking pyramids. I'm not sure what exactly the Swiss Model accomplishes: -If you want to add clubs, just make a 40 team group stage: 8 groups of 5. -If you don't want clubs to be eliminated after the group stage, then just open up a 32 team playoff bracket after the group stage. -If you want to reward big clubs based on "historical" performance (an abhorrent idea), you can still do that in the current 32 team 8x4 tournament. Just reserve 2 spots for the teams with the highest coefficient that have not otherwise qualified. The Swiss Model doesn't actually solve any problems. Certainly, it doesn't solve any problems that couldn't be solved using a normal group stage/playoff format. It only creates new problems, and it all but assures that there will be an eventual Superleague. That's probably why this Juventus guy, who was formerly a Superleague proponent, is now so big on the Swiss Model. He knows it will create a slippery slope that will inevitably end in a Superleague. If you can get the domestic leagues and national feds to accommodate 10 group stage games, then why can't you also get them to allow 11 games? Then you could have 3 balanced conferences of 12 team each. Of course having 3 conferences feeding a playoff system is almost as dumb as the Swiss Model itself, so now you ask to move to 2 conferences with 15 games each. After all, it's only 4 more games! Then once you get to that point where you are playing that many European games, you might as well withdraw from your domestic league and just play a full European Superleage schedule.
this is gonna happen: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ue-backers-ready-blueprint-to-shake-up-soccer