UEFA Euro 2024: England Tournament Thread [R]

Discussion in 'England' started by BarryfromEastenders, Apr 24, 2024.

  1. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    This is quite interesting from Carlos. He's asked who is better than Cafu. He answers quickly on most, except the ones he's mates with but also Trent who he has to concede is a great player before saying Cafu is better. I remember Dani Alves citing James, Trent and Hakimi as there best right backs in the modern game. I think others have touched on this but the discourse around Trent seems to be different in England than it is in what we would consider the highest football nation.



    It reminds me a bit of the discourse around Roy Keane, he's kind of revered as player in England as he's pretty much the ultimate British style player. But you won't find many on the continent or South America praising him at all as a legend, let alone how highly they praise someone like Paul Scholes. We love the blood and guts over the skill and technique.
     
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  2. AJ123

    AJ123 Member+

    Man Utd
    England
    Feb 17, 2018
    Chalobah has only had one significant injury. His injury record is pretty good overall. He's just not been fancied by Chelsea's revolving door of managers.
     
  3. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    It's quite strange that fans are underwhelmed by Chalobah. He's a really good player and like you say £25m might make him the best value buy on the entire market.

    I think almost every other big nation would have used Trent significantly more than we have. He's still only 25 so there's time left yet but I'll be so disappointed if Southgate doesn't give him a proper chance in a favourable role this summer. If we qualify for the next World Cup he'll be a few months away from turning 28 by the time that rolls around; it'd be egregious if he reaches that age without having been given a real chance for England.
     
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  4. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
  5. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    #1655 MrSnrub, Jun 1, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2024
    I must say I think there's pretty extreme revisionism over Scholes. He started every game for 4 tournaments straight - how many of our players in our entire history can say that? The idea England didn't appreciate him compared to the clever foreigners has never really stacked up.

    It all basically stems from the fact he became a different player after he retired from international football. People go on about him being shunted out to the left wing (which at any rate was more of a tucked, but as he acknowledged it was actually a role he'd played with some success for United that season, and at any rate he'd had 3 prior tournaments for England as a central midfielder.

    Because of that perceived, he became a poster boy for the supposed deficiencies of England's football mentality, when the reality is he was rarely used any different from the attacking midfielder he was at United. Then you had a bunch of fake quotes which continuously circulate from ex professionals which exagerrate his reputation outside England, and at any rate you can find plenty of real quotes from foreign pros praising Steven Gerrard, a very stereotypical English midfield, as a world class player.
     
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  6. Khadrim

    Khadrim Member

    Jul 30, 2011
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    #1656 Khadrim, Jun 1, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2024
    I think people are overrating Tosin a bit. He is a decent defender. But he isn't exceptional in anything. His passing into midfield was a big cause of apprehension for us. Konsa, Branthwaite, Ghuei are all considerably better.
     
  7. Khadrim

    Khadrim Member

    Jul 30, 2011
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    At the same time I think Trent is overrated. He has had 23 caps for England. More than enough chances to grab a spot and establish himself. As a right back he can't contend with Walker defensively, but attacking wise, James and Trippier have both been superior to him for England. In midfield he had those two games in the summer where everything went right and then was poor against the same opposition in November as well anonymous against Australia.

    In the future I can see Livramento getting ahead of him. We haven't wasted Trent. He has wasted the chances given to him.
     
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  8. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
     
  9. Inter Row Z

    Inter Row Z Member+

    Oldham Athletic
    England
    Mar 26, 2023
    Overrated? Name me one other full-back who has clocked up 85 career assists and been so instrumental in helping their side win the Champions League and Premier League titles? You could argue that he's only been able to do this because he has players around him at club level who compensate for his forays forward. But there's absolutely no reason why he still can't be a massive force with England - starting this summer.
     
  10. W.A.S.P.

    W.A.S.P. Member+

    Leeds United
    England
    Sep 20, 2012
    St. Louis
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Won't mind at all if Real Madrid win today.

    Jude Bellingham La Liga player of the year, Champions League winner, and potentially Euro 2024 winner. That should secure him the Ballon D'or no?
     
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  11. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Think it will depend on how well we do in the Euros also. If we flop then I doubt it and if France win they will give it to Mbappe probably.
     
  12. Khadrim

    Khadrim Member

    Jul 30, 2011
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    How about the fact he has failed to do so for England previously. There have been numerous players who have shone for club but failed to do so for country. Trent is in that list.
     
  13. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    The Sancho banter with United fans will be great if Dortmund win though.
     
  14. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    I think one of the issues is that when he plays for Liverpool he’s given that licence to go forward and create and defending is second and often left for others to cover. I somewhat doubt that Southgate would entertain these ideas due to his pragmatic approach as to the reason Walker is always preferred due to his defensive attributes and speed to cover.
     
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  15. W.A.S.P.

    W.A.S.P. Member+

    Leeds United
    England
    Sep 20, 2012
    St. Louis
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I hate Real so I'd ultimately prefer if Dortmund win, but wouldn't be mad either way.
     
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  16. Inter Row Z

    Inter Row Z Member+

    Oldham Athletic
    England
    Mar 26, 2023
    And there have been plenty of players like Raheem Sterling and Alan Shearer who were given an extensive run with the England team, even when they maybe weren't producing the goods. When you have one of the world's best right backs at your disposal, you give him time to integrate into the team. You don't just bring him in for the odd game here and there, then wonder why he's not replicating his club form. 23 caps is a derisory amount.
     
  17. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    Trent hasn't had a tonne of starts for England and in many of those he's been played out of position. He's also had very strong performances in an England shirt, like Switzerland in the Nations League finals where he was the best player on the pitch.

    I'd argue he's been given nowhere near the amount of loyalty and undeserved perseverance that other Southgate era players have. For example, say, Mason Mount, who was a regular starter for a long time (and in major tournaments) despite rarely ever being above a 6/10 in an England shirt.
     
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  18. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    I thought Wembley was the English national stadium. Why does it have London written down. It should just be classed as Wembley
     
  19. KHSAFC

    KHSAFC Member

    Sunderland
    England
    Feb 12, 2023
    I think UEFA always use the name of the city rather than the stadium
     
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  20. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    I guess so.
     
  21. RobTheFool

    RobTheFool Member+

    Apr 19, 2008
    London, England
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I want Dortmund to win. Not a fan of Real Madrid at all.

    Also would love Sancho to have a great game, I'm still sad he isn't in our squad, hope he can get back in ASAP
     
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  22. RobTheFool

    RobTheFool Member+

    Apr 19, 2008
    London, England
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Sancho has been very good so far. At Man Utd he seemed to be inhibited and never took his man on. Every time today he has the ball he runs at his defender and usually embarrasses them, that's when he's at his best. I still would have him over Bowen 100%.
     
  23. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Also strange with Sabizter, he could hardly get a look in at Utd and has been good for Dortmund. Maybe says more about Utd than those players.
     
  24. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Not a great half for Madrid or Bellingham, not sure if it’s this system they play but they can’t get him in the game or he’s just struggling to get into this game. Will be interesting in the Euro’s as I actually think Southgate will play more to his strengths.
     
  25. RobTheFool

    RobTheFool Member+

    Apr 19, 2008
    London, England
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Madrid look ordinary a lot of the time. I'm really not sure what it is about them, they can look very ordinary but managed to have some good moments and stay in the game.

    They were utterly outplayed at the Etihad in 2022 but got away with just a goal deficit and then we know what happened in extra time in the away leg. Similarly this year against City and Bayern, outplayed for long periods but somehow got through.

    I don't think Bellingham really suits being so far forward and they do also need a striker IMO. I actually think he could offer more from a deeper position and it would suit us as Foden would be a much better fit in a central position
     
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