UEFA Euro 2024: England Tournament Thread [R]

Discussion in 'England' started by BarryfromEastenders, Apr 24, 2024.

  1. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    Always find it bogglingly that England fans want to retire players in there early 30s, absolutely no reason they (especially CBs) can’t go on into mid to late 30s, the likes of Ramos, Pepe, Thiago Silva all have, but we always want to replace with the perceived new shiny thing.
     
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  2. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    It's not old but it is somewhat difficult to see someone who picks up as many niggling injuries as Stones having a long career at this current level long into his 30s. Since he moved to City he basically will miss out guaranteed at least half a season of games due to either form or fitness issues. Still, we shouldn't be getting rid of him as he's a top centre back on form, but as an eventuality we should be prepared for it.

    Maguire the ship should have sailed after the 2022 tournament really, I don't mind him being in the squad for now but the limitations he imposes on our play and the amount of errors he makes for us now are bare for all to see. He was a good servant but he's holding the team back really.
     
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  3. KHSAFC

    KHSAFC Member

    Sunderland
    England
    Feb 12, 2023
    Probably because apart from Walker, they are all incredibly injury prone. Relying on them so much has put us in a difficult spot this tournament.

    we need to use the nations league to plan for the future
     
  4. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    It’s hard to when not getting promoted would be a major blow.
     
  5. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    I could see it too. I have no issue with them being in the squad but I don't think it would be ideal if they're still our starting CBs in 2026. I think Maguire can be upgraded on and I don't think it's best to rely on a player as injury-prone as Stones (as good as he is). Think there are/will be even more concerns over their mobility as a pair too at that stage.
     
  6. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    All of those players had exceptionally higher peaks than Harry Maguire and were nowhere near as injury-prone as Stones. If Stones was reliable fitness-wise this wouldn't even be a conversation.
     
  7. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    #1557 MrSnrub, May 28, 2024
    Last edited: May 28, 2024
    Yeah this is a lot more nuanced. No one is talking about scrapping Harry Kane who's the same age as Stones, because he doesn't regularly miss half a season injured.

    And I don't think anyone wants to "retire" Stones, but its not exactly great to be in a position where we're hoping a guy who started 12 premier league games all season is going to manage to find both form and fitness to manage playing hopefully 7 games in the summer. This is hardly a one off for him so it seems more likely than not he will probably be increasingly injury prone as he ages.

    That doesn't mean putting him out to pasture but we should be planning for alternative options and building up experience for them in the team otherwise you end up at risk of the same situation we have have in midfield where we relied too much post world cup on Henderson/Phillips being available despite obvious warnings signs on form and fitness and now we're left scrambling to sort the midfield on the eve of the tournament.
     
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  8. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    Wasn’t even specifically talking about Maguire, it’s a trait we’ve had as a footballing nation for decades. We haven’t had a CB play for us over 35 in the modern era apart from Keown (which is a huge anomaly amongst other top tier nations), maybe someone can correct me if they know better.
     
  9. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Especially when planning on doing it before new players really step up and show enough to take their place. Maybe Guehi has done enough but other than that the others need more experience.

    Other than Rooney (which was quite a mutual agreement) I can’t recall a proper retirement since James Milner. Maybe I’ve missed a few?
     
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  10. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    Chielini and bonnuci kept going together I'm their mid 30s. They were still strong in the euros final
     
  11. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    #1561 Fireburn47, May 28, 2024
    Last edited: May 28, 2024
    Jamie Vardy and Gary Cahill after 2018.
     
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  12. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    #1562 BarryfromEastenders, May 28, 2024
    Last edited: May 28, 2024
    Oldest outfield players since 1990 -

    Stuart Pearce - 37 years. 137 days.
    Teddy Sheringham - 36 years. 80 days.
    Frank Lampard - 36 years. 4 days.
    Martin Keown - 35 years. 306 days.
    Ian Wright - 35 years. 15 days.

    Centre back has usually been a strong position for us. Part of the reason we phase options out.

    Other than Keown I don’t think we have ever had many 35+ CB’s worthy of playing for England.

    The oldest PL English CB’s -

    Jagielka (38) at Sheffield Utd and Everton. Was phased out at about 32 and was then nowhere near the level required.

    Dave Watson at Everton was still playing at (38). Had not been capped for 12 years at that point. Again was quite a way off England level be 35.

    Keown and Bould played until 37.

    Terry, Ferdinand, Mabbutt and Sol Campbell played PL level to 36.

    Upson, Cahill, Carragher, Southgate, Adams played to 35.

    When you think of all of these players in these years they were struggling to maintain fitness and form was usually declining.
     
  13. wellno

    wellno Member+

    Jul 31, 2016
    Always find it mind boggling how there's overwhelming evidence that players are, on average, well past their prime in their early 30s but some people only want to talk about the outliers and cling on to all their old toys
     
  14. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    We have some good young prospects at cb

    I’m more worried about left backs. Is there any potential world class players in that regard? Mitchell was highly rated at one point but is there anyone coming through? Rb isnt an issue
     
  15. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    It is and always will be a case by case basis, it’s not about clinging onto old toys, just as it’s not about starting shiny new things. We are an outlier as a nation in having very few CBs go on playing at a high level post 34. Maybe the players I mentioned are on the extreme end of the curve, but we don’t have players, playing at the level of the likes of Hummels, Acerbi, Nacho, Blind into their mid 30s we are an outlier in that respect in Europe, maybe that a fault of the PL.
     
  16. Gaz811

    Gaz811 Member+

    Everton FC
    England
    Oct 15, 2018
    Hall at Newcastle looks to have a chance. But not much after that
     
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  17. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    The lad at Ipswich is still young
     
  18. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    Exactly. Can keep them around by all means but but we need to be looking towards a new partnership heading into the future.

    I'm definitely not in favour of freezing players out solely because of age. Talking specifically about these cases I just think players like Walker and Maguire sticking around in the starting lineup any longer would only block a pathway for a better, younger options while Stones is just too much of a fitness worry.
     
  19. KHSAFC

    KHSAFC Member

    Sunderland
    England
    Feb 12, 2023
    Our u21s would be favourites for that nations league group. We should absolutely be able to win that group whilst blooding new defenders.

    I’d far rather do it in the nations league than World Cup qualifiers.
     
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  20. RobTheFool

    RobTheFool Member+

    Apr 19, 2008
    London, England
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Stones when fit is one of the best CBs in the world, so I wouldn't want to displace him so easily. But agreed that after this tournament we need to have a reshuffle and blood in some youngsters (should have happened after 2022 IMO) so that if Stones is out injured we don't end up as we are now on the current situation.

    We have plenty of options at RB and CB so I'm not too concerned, LB is more of a concern but Gomez can fill in there.
     
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  21. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
  22. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Archie Brown maybe one to keep an eye on, been getting some good reviews playing in Belgium and apparently there’s interest from Premier League teams to sign him. I personally haven’t seen that much of him so don’t shoot me down but just what I’ve read.
     
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  23. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
     
  24. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    The turnaround in Shaw from someone who skipped out on England camps previously to consistently showing up or staying with England even when hes injured is remarkable, and really one of Southgates great successes as manager that he created a camp with people so desperate to play.
     
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  25. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021

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