UEFA Euro 2024: England Tournament Thread [R]

Discussion in 'England' started by BarryfromEastenders, Apr 24, 2024.

  1. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Yes but France being a mess this year only furthers the opportunity missed. They got it done in 18 and to a lesser extent 22 which makes another run less likely also Mbbape was compromised and the team was not balanced. Without Pogba and a prime Greizman and Giroud they did not have the quality to carry to hold the ball. France had on paper issues before we even get to the managers ability to get something out of this group.

    Only Spain and Germany really stood in Southgate's way no one else really had the squad depth to really challenge. Netherlands were even missing their two best midfielders in Koopminers and De Jong.
     
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  2. Catenaccio88

    Catenaccio88 Member

    Cavalry FC
    England
    Sep 23, 2023
    France has a history of unhappy squads. The generation before France98 had it bad with Cantona, Ginola et al

    The 2002 team that went out in the groups were rumored to have problems and the 2010 team went on strike 'during' the world cup LOL
     
  3. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    For me the most obvious formation is a 433

    striker - Kane/toney/watkins/palmer
    Rw- Saka/palmer/bowen
    Lw - Gordon/graelish/eze
    LCM -rice/maddison/foden
    Rcm - Bellingham/mainoo
    Dm - Wharton/ Gomes
    Lb - shaw/chillwell
    Rb - white/taa/james
    Lcb - guehi/konsa
    Rcb - stones/quansah
    Gk - Pickford/ramsdale etc

    seems obvious to me. Foden has never shown up for England and 2 8s with white able to play inverted or taa makes us way more balanced

    we need a better coach, someone who can set up a more advanced system and come up with a press or at least a good mid block
     
  4. RobTheFool

    RobTheFool Member+

    Apr 19, 2008
    London, England
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Not sure how I feel about white returning, as much as he'd be a good addition. Turning down your country is a bit low IMO despite whatever happened behind the scenes. Always put country > disputes IMO
     
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  5. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    #7380 Fireburn47, Jul 15, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2024
    Portugal had a pretty good squad but was not helped by Martinez being bad and letting Ronaldo rule the roost.
     
  6. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    It would be interesting- Potter has worked with him so would presumably be keen but then would even be a starter ahead of James or Trent at right back. Also would he start at centre back?
     
  7. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
  8. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    If you're saying France was a "mess" then you'd also have to account for England's problems which were pretty numerous also.

    I don't think Southgate managed the squad very well but I wouldn't ignore clearly there was a big issue with Kane, akin to France with Mbappe. Or that half his regular defence was out with Shaw and Maguire. And of those left, it was increasingly apparent that Kyle Walker is just not the level he was and he was dragging the team down even defensively all tournament. Couple that with issues with a lack of deep midfielder (which eventually Mainoo did an admirable job in, but clearly Spain was a level too far) and you have a whole host of issues with the squad.

    I said before the tournament this was a tournament to soon for this group, and I think it became pretty obvious why. Though that doesn't defend just how poor the team was on the ball in the ball throughout the tournament, and just how bad the attack was, or the obvious tactical issues we didn't account for (the left side being a particular issue all tournament).
     
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  9. Gaz811

    Gaz811 Member+

    Everton FC
    England
    Oct 15, 2018
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  10. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Southgate willingly took one LB that was unfit. That is on him. Do no other let backs exist?
    If Kane was unfit he could have played Toney and Watkins there is no such replacement for Mbbappe. Konsa and Guehi are better than Maguire.

    If the idea is that well Spain are just a level too far England don't have that quality then ok England are just not good enough to win a tournament then and if this is one of if not the most talented England side then what hope is there for them to ever win?

    No this si not the case they have the talent and really you can won with even less talent and depth if you manage and prepare the squad correctly. Deschamp should be sacked so again even if we ignore the fact that France really did not have a team on paper to compete meaning Dembele is not very good the other wingers are un proven they don't have a replacement for Giroud Griezman who no longer have the legs then we can still say Deschamp did poor and Southgate did poor.

    The reality is Deschamp would love to have Jude Foden Gordon Watkins Palmer to play along side Mbbappe. Or to have a Maino so he did not have to try and make Kante a regitsa which he can not do.

    If it took Southgate trying Trent and Gallagher before he gave Maino a chance what does that say about him? Plenty of folks were calling for Maino to be used. I agree that England are a flawed squad but they have a proper player for every position to make a very exciting 11. Again Spain used many players from smaller clubs that simply fit the profile of their position whether they were in the starting 11 or the bench. Southgate not having the talent is a tough sell I believe for most football fans and analysts and it does not bode well for the future. Is there some truth in it? Well for me you need a ball carrying 6 and Rice is not it I would rather play Wharton there with Maino. I would even play Maino as your deep 6 with Jude and Rice/Wharton on either side of him.

    He had plenty of time to come up with solutions I am just doing it off the top of my head.
    He openly admitted that they never trained for 3 at the back. He was improvising because his plan A was a shit show on the pitch and the statistics bear it out.
     
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  11. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Portugal really struggled to score. Vitinha is a player England would love to have but in the Bernardo Bruno Cancelo Leao Jota Felix era from 2018-2024 they have scored 1 goal in 5 knock out matches. They are not that good to be honest. Bruno is a weird player that has failed to be the focal point of United and Bernardo is hidden/protected within Peps system where he is very replaceable.

    Leao has the ability but he is very random and lazy on defence. Cancelo is worse than Trent defending one on one. Jota is good but nothing out of this world. Ronaldo is an all time world 11 LWF/LF but a mediocre CF and has been against any decent opposition consistently since he moved to that position around 2018. He is simply not that good at the job almost bad at times.

    They are very overrated at the moment. Not unlike England at times they just look like a collection of EPL all stars running around in an 11 as if it is a charity game they are not really a team and have not been for a while.
     
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  12. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    These articles are trying desperately to make mountains out of molehills. I mean this article mentions the big omission of Raheem Sterling - the guy hasn't played for England since the world cup? How much of a surprise can it have been to anyone he wasn't included? Particularly given he was barely even playing for Chelsea the last few months of the season?

    Then the stuff about the 33 man squad causing "apprehension" unlike other squads.....except this is EXACTLY the same as how it was in the last Euro squad. Larger squad of 33 cut down to 26.

    I don't doubt Bellingham has an ego - as he rightly should, and as most great players do, but the media attempts to cut him down are so vague - I mean they complain here that he "stormed off" (walked) to be alone on the pitch for a while before going back to teammates? There's just nothing to that.
     
  13. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    As I said, I don't think Southgate managed the squad well, or that his selections were really sensible given he was clearly extremely reluctant to deviate from 10 of his 11 players all tournament.

    But at the same time he did have a lot of issues with the squad. By far the best squad he had was Euro 2021, and that was far more of a "missed opportunity" than this one.
     
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  14. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Who in form from bigger clubs did Spain leave out through. He didn’t leave out someone with the form of Foden or Rice which is what people want on here. Porro?
     
  15. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    You have to remember Bellimgham won’t talk to the media so not surprising they don’t like him. But considering the FA want good relations with the media it rules him out being captain.
     
  16. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    Where has good relations with the media got the FA?

    Tactics leaked. Teams leaked. Etc etc

    Maybe the FA should spend less time worrying about the media and more time worrying about winning tournaments
     
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  17. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    Ben White is a very good player but he's still our 3rd best right back imo. Obviously we need Reece James to keep fit and if that doesn't happen I'd probably like White to be around, but ultimately I'm not that bothered.

    I know Livramento is a bit volatile atm but I still think his ceiling as a RB is incredibly high so hopefully he keeps developing so our depth in that position isn't too affected in the short-term.
     
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  18. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    #7393 MrSnrub, Jul 15, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2024
    One thing I will say for the article is that this part:

    Is 100% true and is a major issue with Southgate. There is no way John Stones for example doesn't know how to pass through the lines, which he never ever attempts for England this tournament. It's his bread and butter for Man City.

    It's why Southgate has to go, England will never compete properly with top tier sides who press well with this kind of instruction, its just not going to happen. You need to take risks with the ball to keep it against a team who press well. It's why England end up penned in against Croatia, Italy, Spain.... They just push their players up and press increasingly high when they realise we won't even attempt to play out against a press as our players are instructed to boot it forward. Hell, this tournament we even ended up doing it against Slovakia, Serbia, Switzerland and Denmark.
     
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  19. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    What kind of managers are good at beating the strong pressing teams? Potter? Howe? Tuchel?
     
  20. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Unfortunately the twenty years before 2016 saw that on top of terrible press relations which caused many many other issues. Without a good press relationship several players would struggle to even be in the squad faced with a barrage of stories and whipped up scandels. (Walker for example - if the press wanted to they could have made a full oj issue about a man with his personal life being involved) The FA wouldn’t do it if they didn’t think they was a benefit.
     
  21. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Talksport have done a predicted line for 2026 and put him in as the right back ahead of Trent and Rico Lewis.

    Full line up Pickford, White, Stones, Guehi, Shaw, Rice, Bellingham, Palmer, Saka, Watkins, Foden

    Others mentioned, Ramsdale, D Henderson, Maguire, Branthwaite, Chilwell, Mitchell, Wharton, Kane, Toney,
     
  22. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Well yes 2020 was a more balanced squad but that doesn't make it much better does it?
    I agree there were flaws in this squad from the off but with the depth available even among the lesser names he had a plate for every profile if he was willing to be brave.

    It's a catch 22 we will never know if Southgate elevated the talent pool between 2020 and 2024 or if he put a ceiling on them or if they just are what they are. I think many suspect in a hypothetical world there was a trophy in this side over the last 3 competitions if the combinations and instructions were just right.

    Now an AI manager does not exist so it's a big what if. We always have to consider someone else could have done much much worse rather than better. But when speaking about Southgate in a vacuum he made several errors going into the tournament.
     
  23. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    If only there was a way for the players not to be associated with scandals.

    Also- who cares about their personal lives ?
     
  24. Andre99

    Andre99 Member

    Liverpool
    England
    Jul 12, 2021
    Shame on the press then. It should not be necessary for the FA to do things that gives an disadvantage to Englands chances, like leaking the teams and letting the press watch almost all training sessions. Just to prevent the press from printing stories that may also be disadvantageous for the team.

    In other countries the press actually wants their team to win tournaments. Can you believe it?
     
  25. TorontoCalabria

    TorontoCalabria Member+

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    in what world can Saka Palmer Foden Bellingham all play in the same 11 might as well through Kane out there as well and have 5 guys trying to create and drop into the hole. It will be the same issues if they try and do this. its a catch 22 play the biggest offensive names all together and get little offence it's ironic but thats how player profiles and positioning work.

    this is what the team should be as of right now if you actually want to be a progressive side and play the most effective players that will put fear into the opposition defence and allow you to build from the back.



    -----------Gordon---------Watkins-------Palmer
    ----------------------Jude---------Maino
    -----------------------------Wharton
    -------Shaw--------Guehi-------Stones------White
    -----------------------------Pickford

    Saka for Palmer
    Kane for Watkins
    Foden for Jude
    Rice for Wharton when protecting a lead or Rice for Maino
    Eze/Grealish for Gordon

    In my side I am building around Jude and Palmer who are the best players.
    Foden comes on for Jude when he is tired.

    Saka and Palmer can get a game each in the groups and the more effective player starts in the knockouts and the other comes on at the 65th minute or what have you.
     
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