I never said it was after 2008. I highlighted that 2010 was when Germany took a much younger team to the World Cup. 2004 was when they made the changes to the way their youth academies are governed. 2010 was when these changes started to bear fruit
Kane can still be a big time player with the correct tactics. This tournament he was poor and clearly unfit.. you don't score 45 goals a season if you are a bad player. This tournament he wasn't even winning duels, holding up the ball. I don't think he's finished, he is best played with runners in behind which we have. I was a big supporter of Foden coming into this tournament but I agree now that he just hasn't deserved to keep his spot, despite the tactics hindering him. Another issue is where all these players fit going forwards. We need to play a 4-3-3 with Wharton at the base, Bellingham and Rice IMO but also wouldn't be against Mainoo over Rice (but won't happen). Under Southgate this just won't happen which is why it's time for him to go
And 45 goals for a team that was as messy as Bayern was last season. How many might have scored had Bayern been at their peak?
Foden was better than Jude but they cancel each other out. Jude also did not have the legs for 90 so why force it they could split games 60/40 as a 10 while Gordon Eze could have played as a proper left winger. It was Gerrard Lampard all over again. It has little to do with Foden/Jude and everything to do with the tactics. Why they both need to start is beyond me.
We've just never serviced him under Southgate. Yes he's scored a lot of goals at tournaments, but that's down to him being so clinical and great at penalties. In big matches we just don't get him enough opportunities - kinda similar to Haaland with City IMO
I think Rice would have to decline at club level to lose his place and not be a massively controversial decision. Because the consensus will become Southgate’s tactics makes the players play bad people will say it wasn’t his fault but the tactics as to why Foden and Rice underperformed. None of Howe, Potter or Carsley seem the type to really rock the boat and block out the pressure from the press and interfering elements of the FA.
Well, that as well. We looked gassed every game and yet we started the same team pretty much every game, a bit of a joke considering we have probably the deepest squad in Europe. No need to run everyone into the ground
I think it’s just impossible for an England manager to be that bold. The structure of the media and the league doesn’t give the breathing space for being bold. Sven and Capello were both outsiders with tons of experience at massive clubs and they also constantly started Gerrard and Lampard and ere bold elsewhere.
that's wild whatever the english bubble is someone needs to break it. Italy never played Del Piero and Baggio together then they dropped Baggio and Del Piero for Totti. You can't play with 2 10s unless you play with proper wing backs in a 3421. when you have Kane Jude Foden all playing a luxury creative role who are they meant to be creating for? If the reason they can't be dropped is the culture around the team then that says everything.
Mourinho would add to the pressure by arguing at the press all the time and making it a circus with speculation that the one who has been dropped has fallen out with him which due to his record people would easily believe. Guardiola probably wouldn’t bend but the media pressure on the England job is 10 times higher than even the City job and there is a major element in the press who will hate him due to reasons linked to City.
right but that is still backwards it's all out of fear. it's built on the premise that english players are spoiled by EPL clubs and all need to be made to be treated like stars and we need to walk one eggs shells to avoid a toxic camp. I get it this is a real thing many nations struggle with Italys camp was toxic this time out and of course this is a massive challenge but to win you need to merge both things the group identity collective etc with the tactical identity. He has 8 years. You can't be afraid 8 years in of things becoming toxic. Foden and Jude should be pushing each other on the pitch. Fabregas did not often start for Spain and the Real Barca divide was real. These are things you have to overcome to win. Again 8 years.
Back in England after our #EURO2024 journey 🤝 pic.twitter.com/Fr39pd8uYs— England (@England) July 15, 2024
Gareth Southgate has been the perfect manager for Gen Z superstars and transforming #England culture for the better, but did that make it harder to coach when it mattered most? @Telegraph https://t.co/x52pS5W0xQ— George Chesterton (@geochesterton) July 15, 2024
First and foremost, you have to deploy players in their best positions. If they can't make it in to the team in their best position, they go on the bench. If they act like a child on the bench, they go home.. Every country with a big player pool has had this issue as some point of another, where the camp has become toxic because big players aren't starting etc. Which is why having a brave manager is so important for the bigger teams. But again, players must only play if they're being deployed in their best role. The moment Coaches try to force round pegs in square holes, to fit the biggest names in to the starting 11, is when you have trouble. England used to constantly play Lampard/Gerrard together in the middle of midfield when they had better natural CM's in Scholes/Carrick/Hargreaves either on the bench or out of position to accommodate this. Beckham was most effective in a traditional 442 with two strikers to aim at. This made Sven's job impossible and in hindsight, he actually did an impressive job getting that team to three Qtr Finals and losing on penalties. The 2002-06 team was better than the current generation, but had less luck IMO
And I forgot to mention; if players are horribly out of form or stinking the place out (ie Harry Kane), a coach must be brave enough to drop them and send a message out that the team is more important than any individual
And even good managers can struggle with this. The French squad at this and the last Euros seemed to have issues. Well reported three years ago and this year also looked miserable and divided. And also the way the manager sells the camp. A brave manager only good if the players actually believe in what they doing. It doesn’t work if the manager is brave but the players don’t believe in it or even that the manager is actively trying to encourage rivalries in camp (There has been international managers who have done that.)
Yes exactly the idea that England never did well before Southgate which excuses his mistake is such a misnomer. The Euros used to be much harder with 16 teams. The England sides in 2004 and 06 went out on penalties in 2002 the faced eventual winners Brazil at the last 8. Not unlike this tournament with Germany Spain at the last 8 that match was the real final of 2002. Even in 2012 they took Italy to penalties to just miss out on a semi final. I don't believe you can win a tournament on luck but you can certainly get far. the 98-2006 teams had zero luck. 18-24 has had a lot of it. Both sides are good and had ups and downs. The results when we look at the opposition and the penalties won vs lost are not very different. 08-16 they did not have the players to contend and that happens. There is no reason to ever mention Hodgson he did not have the players Southgate had and again 0-0 against Italy in 2012 is not worse than 1-1 with the Swiss or 1-1 with Columbia. Yes 2 finals is great but you can so easily flip that and say one they got some nice draws and two they clearly had the players to win over a 4 year period where some other big nations were in transition. There was clearly a window here over the last 8 years. Not that it has closed but it will only get harder now in all likely hood.