UEFA Euro 2024: England Tournament Thread [R]

Discussion in 'England' started by BarryfromEastenders, Apr 24, 2024.

  1. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021

     
  2. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain

    He's right about needing balance but Rice is such a weird example to use. He was one of the best players on the pitch yesterday. You don't need Rice bombing forward and box crashing when you've got Jude Bellingham; he does all of that to a higher level than Rice can and more. Rice is a defensive anomaly and should 100% be a holding midfield player for us imo. The issue with the balance comes from the third midfielder spot.

    I don't like the idea of Rice being an advanced midfielder for us when we're trying to break down a compact defence. Think it'd just look incredibly clunky.
     
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  3. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
  4. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    triplier is shit, taa starts over him and Bellingham is wasted in a midfield 2

    he is an 8/10 more than a 4/6

    let rice and Gallagher or Wharton do the dirty work and let Jude get into the box

    also, Saka is a brilliant player but I’m trying to come up with a solution to get the left side involved and get the best out of foden and Jude
     
  5. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    #3405 TorontoCalabria, Jun 17, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2024
    Yeah I don’t disagree with you at all just giving a solution to that set up as an alternative to Saka at LWB. Of course you can put TAA where I put Trippier to be better going forward.

    For me if I am doing a clean 4231 I would just do

    Gordon Kane Foden
    -———-Jude
    -—-Rice——Wharton
    Shaw——————Walker

    Then I bring on Eze for Gordon and Saka for Foden if you need a goal but this gives you control of the game. I would also have brought Grealish and Rashford for the left but Im using who he brought.

    Im not a massive believer in Saka as first choice to me he reminds me very much of Domenico Berardi 2021 where their numbers look great but being replaced by the more technical Chiesa was the right call.

    Nothing to take away from Saka but I think there is this overcorrection on the critique toward him where people feel they have to say he is better than he is for some reason.

    Very good player but hes not the only winger in the world scoring in double digits and Arsenal puts him in a set up where he is set up to succeed. Hes better than Dembele hes better than a lot of guys but hes not Salah or Mane level where he cant be dropped. Let Foden and he share the role and who performs best gets it by the end.
     
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  6. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    #3406 TorontoCalabria, Jun 17, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2024
    or you do the Man City 4141

    with
    —————Kane
    Gordon Foden Jude Saka
    —————-Rice

    and then your fullbacks tuck in and Saka and Gordon work hard.

    back to the 3421 you could do this and bring on Saka for Foden and shift Jude left. TAA is basically doing Sakas job here.

    —————kane
    ……Foden……….Jude
    Shaw…rice…wharton….TAA
    ……..guehi..stones..Walker
    …………..Pickford
     
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  7. Gaz811

    Gaz811 Member+

    Everton FC
    England
    Oct 15, 2018
    Trent should be dropped for the
    Theres no way Southgate picks 2 no10s in Foden and Bellingham. Southgate a fews years ago was trying to make 3 at the back work but couldn't. Wharton Rice and Bellingham is probably the most balanced midfield for style of Football Southgate plays. But Southgate will pick Gallagher instead of Wharton. I hate to say this but we may need to drop Foden for Gordon or Eze and have Foden as first change for Bellingham.
     
  8. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Saka is not overrated , he works really hard both sides of the ball and has a large output

    Southgate has to figure out the balance overall
     
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  9. Gaz811

    Gaz811 Member+

    Everton FC
    England
    Oct 15, 2018
    Saka's main problem is for a wide player hes not flashy. So poeple don't understand how good he is. He does a lot of the hard work other wingers won't do and still scores goals. Musiala (who people are now saying is better than Bellingham) has 3 goals in 30 games for Germany. Where as Saka has 11 in 34 for England.
     
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  10. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Foden was dog sh&te yesterday, instead of trying to shoe-horn players into positions that they don't normally play he should simply play the best players he has available for each position, if Foden misses out because Bellingham is a better player in his position then so be it, I mean you wouldn't stick Bellingham in the back four or in goal just to get him in the side so don't play him out of position anywhere, it's the same old story as the Lampard/Gérard debacle, if Southgate plays Alexander-Arnold in midfield again this tournament he needs to be sacked immediately!
     
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  11. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Yeah it works it really does and Saka off the bench is a match winner.
     
  12. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Overrated is a meaningless term often when some rate a player to much and others not enough.
    For me he is one of the better right wingers in the world right now but also predictable and not a proven champion yet I think that is properly rating him. If the idea is that along with Kane Bellingham he is first on the team sheet no questions asked I think that is overacting him.

    He works hard yes. His output is good but not otherworldly he ranked 38th in the golden boot race playing for a team that ranked third for goals scored in Europe. For me he is a little robotic and predictable in his movement and this shows against top teams. He had a good world cup but he scored 2 against Iran in a blowout and 1 against Senegal. Good stuff but nothing earth shattering.

    Look at Rahem Sterling or Rashford who have had equally strong seasons as Saka in the past neither of whom are even 30 yet and are now treated as if they are yesterday's news. There may be this idea with Saka that because he is 22 he will only grow and grow but for me I've seen enough to know he will be a very good to strong player but not a great one. Foden for me is more on that cusp of being a great player. Again Saka very much reminds me of Berardi he's a provincial talent that just happens to be on a big club. I don't see him as the leading man for a CL or England national team winning side. A great squad player someone anyone would want to have as a weapon but not Jude not Kane not Stones where his place can not be debated. Of course he should get as many minutes as possible though.
     
  13. roverman

    roverman Member+

    Dec 22, 2001
    Saka is an outstanding talent
     
  14. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yeah u lost me there comparing him to Berradi

    he’s miles above that, at Arsenal he is often doubled as he roasts left backs for fun. He was our best attacking player yesterday with Jude as well

    foden has amazing talent but when you have Rodri and de bruyne in midfield, life is a bit easier

    either way, he should be a lock in at rw if we keep this formation
     
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  15. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    Agreed he is one of the best right sided forward players in the world right now.
     
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  16. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    #3416 TorontoCalabria, Jun 17, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2024
    Agreed that Foden is set up for success at Man City but he is undoubtedly better on the ball than Saka and while doing a lot of the little things that don't show up on the stat sheet yet clearly he also produces at a similar if rate to Saka over the last 2 seasons in a team where he is not looked at to be the top scorer. He is also a champion of England and Europe.

    The way Southgate prefers to play Saka will be there at RW because of his work rate and crossing no doubt but that's another conversation all together. I don't think it's controversial to prefer Foden right now as an all round player. We won't really know for a few years one may pull ahead of the other or maybe they both improve year over year as they hit their primes at a similar rate.

    Either way they can just keep Foden on the left and Saka on the right it does not have to be one or the other. I like Saka off the bench with Foden helping control the game in the first half and Saka coming on to run at tired legs but I think they will just run back the same 11.
     
  17. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Gary Neville again saying Southgate probably wants to start Gallagher but might be worried about how it’s perceived

    None of the pundits want Foden dropped at all. . .
     
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  18. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    I don't know what Southgate's ever done to give Neville the impression he cares about things like that. I think Southgate probably does start Gallagher against Denmark fwiw.
     
  19. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    Foden at the last World cup?
     
  20. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    I'm not even sure how true this is. Foden is more athletically pleasing than Saka, but I actually think Saka is more secure in possession. His first touch is excellent, he uses his body much better than Foden does and I think he's a lot better at not letting the ball get stuck under his feet than Foden is. I think he's overall a more effective creator than Foden is too.
     
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  21. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    In what way?
     
  22. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
  23. Jenks

    Jenks Member+

    Feb 16, 2013
    Club:
    --other--
    "We need balance in midfield... also let's push Rice further up the pitch"

    He's right about him not being a true #6 though I think. Wharton is probably the only true #6 in the squad and there's a decent chance he doesn't even play.
     
  24. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    The only reason Foden came into the side at the last world cup was because Sterling left the squad for a period after his family was burgled
     
  25. Iansutton270390

    Iansutton270390 Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Jan 12, 2019
    Well I’m sitting here watching the tournament favourites, and there isn’t much difference between this performance and ours last night.
    I honestly think our pundits are too hard on our players. We got the job done and that’s all you need to do.
    International football is different to club football and will always be more cagey. Anyone who thinks we’re gonna blow every team away 5-0 need to watch this tournament now.
    All the top teams are not blowing anyone away….some have lost their opening games.
     
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