UEFA Euro 2024: England Tournament Thread [R]

Discussion in 'England' started by BarryfromEastenders, Apr 24, 2024.

  1. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The more I look at available players , the more I lean toward a 343 to get the best out of taa and our attacking mids

    I’m really not confident in the defence at all and they might need more help

    ………………….kane
    ………….jude………..foden
    Saka…..rice……….Gallagher…taa
    ………guehi…stones….walker
    ………………Pickford

    you sacrifice Saka but he’s our only left footed player who is fit (if he is fit) who can do that role with shaw out

    I know we face easier opposition but vs tough sides, this could be better

    taa in midfield might get pressed into errors vs better sides
     
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  2. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021


     
  3. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021

    https://www.thetimes.com/sport/foot...field-adam-lallana-euro-2024-serbia-297vxb8xt
    He’s got X factor and can defend – why Trent Alexander-Arnold must start - by Adam Lallana

    Show Spoiler

    My former Liverpool team-mate is more than capable of performing alongside Declan Rice in the England midfield for the Euro 2024 opener against Serbia on Sunday


    There is no doubt that England arrive in Germany with problems to solve, but they should also be confident in what they can achieve at the European Championship.

    Forget the defeat by Iceland. That was a really tough fixture for a lot of reasons. First, it was a group of players who had reported at different times so had not trained together extensively. Then there is the fact that it was the last workout before the tournament and no one wants to get injured. As a result of that, the atmosphere was odd and it was a performance to simply get out of their system.

    The main concern for Gareth Southgate will be around England’s defence, because the continuity evident in previous tournaments is not there. This, and the ability to keep clean sheets, was always the bedrock for progress, but John Stones came off at half-time at Wembley, Marc Guéhi has come into the side and Kieran Trippier is getting back to fitness after a spell out for Newcastle United.

    England lacked cohesion. The relationships from the past are not there any more given Harry Maguire’s absence and so a lot of the work in the build-up to the Serbia game will be focusing on the back line, aspects such as distances between players on the pitch and staying compact.

    Right now the defence is more of a priority than who should play in midfield alongside Declan Rice.

    Trent Alexander-Arnold would be my choice. I know people have questioned whether my former Liverpool team-mate can manage the defensive demands of playing as an out-and-out midfielder when he usually steps into the middle of the pitch from right back for his club.

    However, giving him that responsibility would bring the best out of him, while there is the added bonus of him being in areas of pitch where he can showcase his creativity.

    Conor Gallagher has finished the season really well for Chelsea and when I watch him, I love the enthusiasm, mentality and work ethic he brings. With the confidence and belief from his manager and team-mates, he would be able to exhibit the quality he possesses also.

    But Trent and Rice can work together. Dec can take the lead and look after Trent in some defensive situations, talking and guiding him at times, but Trent can offer the X factor and within that can still take on defensive duties.

    It is not the “me show”. England are not going to lift silverware with that mentality, so part of Trent’s job would be to complement Jude Bellingham and Phil Foden.

    They are two of the best players in the world right now, a pair of future Ballon d’Or winners, and one of the biggest things Gareth has to figure out is how they function as part of a winning team.

    Of course, they will both start against Serbia. I have no doubt about that. But does Phil play off the right, or is that Bukayo Saka’s position? Will Phil be on the left?

    Some of the omissions from Gareth’s squad have caused eyebrows to be raised. For instance, Jack Grealish offers something different and boasts the ability to change the course of a game out of nothing.

    I was most surprised at Jordan Henderson’s exclusion. Yes, he is my best mate in football so I know people will accuse me of being biased, but having witnessed Jordan’s influence in a squad, I know he will be missed.

    For example, Trent is someone who confides in Jordan, and Jude is extremely close to him. He almost sees him as a mentor.
    During my time as a coach with England Under-21 last season, I would regularly meet Jordan for a coffee and a catch-up at St George’s Park. Jude would always be with him. Their relationship was quite striking to see.

    Obviously, Jordan picked up an injury in the March camp but he was back playing for Ajax at the end of the season and I was shocked that he was not included in a 26-man squad.

    He is not a senior player who would have demanded to play. He knows his role within the squad, He would have helped Gareth and Harry Kane from a leadership point of view and there is a lot of value in that, regardless of what some people might say.

    The day after a game when the team are doing recovery and a dozen or so lads are training, you need someone setting standards and whose voice carries weight.

    I am not suggesting his role would have been that of a cheerleader, because that would be totally disrespectful to him as a player and the career he has had. But at a tournament everything off the pitch has to be right. You cannot measure the presence of a player like Jordan with a stat.













    This is an interesting but also a bit annoying article. It feels a bit entitled to be saying he should have been taken just so he can set good standards.
     
  4. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    Quite like that. It also probably makes a bit of sense even when Shaw comes back, because those areas where Jude and Foden would be playing are also where Saka does his best work - same for Eze, and even Gordon I think could potentially be more effective a little bit more tucked in.

    If we were to play that setup though I think it needs Wharton in the team to work to its maximum. Needs a midfielder who can progress the ball quickly and is comfortable playing at all angles. Exactly the same role he plays for Palace so he's well used to it.
     
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  5. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    https://metro.co.uk/2024/06/10/alan-shearer-names-england-team-euro-2024-three-lions-travel-germany-21003078/

    Manchester United and Tottenham are set to battle it out for Crystal Palace and England winger Eberechi Eze, 25. (Football Insider)

    Bayern Munich are interested in Chelsea defender Levi Colwill, 21, with initial talks to sign the England international having already taken place. (Sky Germany)

    Bukayo Saka is a fitness worry for England ahead of the Euros. (Daily Mirror)

    England striker Ollie Watkins has revealed his stunning form at Aston Villa came after employing a therapist he speaks with before and after every match, having struggled with belief in himself earlier in his career. (Daily Telegraph)

    Harry Kane says England have already beaten the Germans this summer - by pipping them to the best training base. (Daily Express)
     
  6. Inter Row Z

    Inter Row Z Member+

    Oldham Athletic
    England
    Mar 26, 2023
    Switching Saka to the left is a decent shout. You could also swap Gallagher for Wharton and have two left footers on that side to truly balance things out, until Shaw is fit.
     
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  7. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    I could only see a major formation change causing more issues than it solves at this stage. England have never looked good in a 3-4-3 formation under Southgate despite being tried a lot. It just never has balance. I don't see it magically working making a sudden leap to it in a tournament again.

    I think the best we've looked under Southgate is in a 4-3-3, this current 4-2-3-1 formation we have real issues getting balance in the midfield, although Bellingham should help with that.

    At any rate I think Southgate just needs to look at when we've generally played best rather than second guessing himself as seems to be the case at the moment. Our best performances are usually with a direct left winger (Rashford or Sterling) who can profit off Kane's tendency to drop deep. A very sturdy and powerful midfield who protect the centre backs and minimise open space for the opposition in our half. Walker playing conservatively and Shaw being allowed to attack more.

    That's basically been the blueprint of England's best performances, that we've erred away from post the Italy game. It's not huge changes to go back (well, Shaw aside, but that can perhaps be accounted for by a defensive left back allowing TAA to play right back).
     
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  8. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    #2858 TorontoCalabria, Jun 11, 2024 at 7:26 AM
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024 at 7:33 AM
    I don't know if Saka can play LWB ...also has no alternate it's too experimental if england had quality left wing backs then yes a 3421 is a great option for them to suite Foden and Bellingham and the CBs. With Saka and Trent you are very exposed defensively even with a back 3. This is actually a super offensive formation. You are attacking with 5 here really. We have seen Belgium exposed with an offensive 343 time and time again.
     
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  9. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    I definitely wouldn't want to return the 3-4-3 the way we played it, it feels very superfluous having wingers on top of wing-backs and it left us outnumbered in the middle of the pitch. I think it could be quite different if we instead used two roaming 10s in the way Crystal Palace do with Eze/Olise though. I think all of our "wingers" other than probably Bowen suit that role better than actually being on the wing.

    I also think a lot of the reason we always looked poor in that formation was down to having two pretty stiff midfielders in Rice (at the time) and Phillips. Rice is far better in possession these days and in Wharton we have someone who suits that role very well.

    I do agree though given how less than ideal the preparation has been for this tournament there's a good argument to just go with what's familiar, at least just to start with. We could still name 8/11 that started against France in Qatar.
     
  10. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    Saka played an awful lot of LWB in his youth and early pro career, he can certainly play the position. I think he's played there for a few times for England in the past maybe people can correct me if I wrong on that, but obviously RW is his favoured position. If Southgate suddenly decides to pick a back 3 (I don't think he will) Gomez- Stones- Walker would be my choice, Id feel a lot more comfortable with Gomez drifting into those LB areas than Guehi.
     
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  11. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    #2861 TorontoCalabria, Jun 11, 2024 at 8:48 AM
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024 at 8:53 AM
    Yes but when you are trying to win a tournament as favourites and the options are Saka at LWB and Trent at central midfield or Tripper as a left back it gets iffy. Stones not being fit and even Shaw not being there really throws a wrench into the supposed depth of this squad.

    Of course there is so much talent for certain positions but clearly there is not for others. Perhaps it would have been better to take players that are not as good technically or by name value so that they could fill utility roles. It seems like Southgate brought the 26 most hyped guys that kids on tik tok rate. Feels like he got bullied into not being pragmatic for once and now fans are seeing this isn't fantasy football but real life. Don't get me wrong though they have enough to make it work and maybe win the whole damn thing if they play well. Just seems like they made it harder on themselves tactically.

    Belgian often played two wingers at the wingback positions under Martinez. It's not unheard of but it puts a lot of pressure on your CBs and makes you super vulnerable to counter attacks. It can be exciting when you smash weaker opposition overloading with 5 attackers but I've never seen anyone win a major tournament or CL playing like this.
     
  12. horrisengleton

    horrisengleton Member+

    Arsenal
    England
    Jul 18, 2023
    Valencia, Spain
    I think it's very clear we're not the favourites. I'm not too sure about Southgate necessarily being bullied out of pragmatism and siding with hyped players, at least not with his defensive selections. His reluctance to call up a left-back besides Shaw (and Chilwell when he's injured, which is most of the time) has been criticised a lot on here and for a period of time long preceding this latest squad selection. He'll likely be playing Trippier at left-back, which in Southgate's mind is him doing something very safe and low-risk. I think most of the country is also pretty mystified at Lewis Dunk's inclusion and he's certainly not got much hype behind him.

    Trent in midfield is also a selection that's totally unnecessary given there are plenty of other options and is something that nobody is really calling for. The lack of defensive depth is true, but it's exacerbated by a few of our better centre-backs being very young and not having been properly integrated into the squad in the last year or so, while one or two of the better, more experienced options have been left out for Dunk.

    The imbalance in the squad selections combined with the injuries/lack of fitness to certain players will be very hard to overcome. Like you say we might be contenders but I think it's quite hard to argue we're favourites at this point.
     
  13. Regis Prograis

    Regis Prograis Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Feb 8, 2020
    He's played there, that seemed to be question asked , Shaw will be back fit for the 2nd/3rd game, I personally would of brought Tyrick Mitchell or Chilwell. Plenty of teams have won tournaments with an underperforming/less favoured/ player out of position. The options are limited so we'll have to make do, and any solution that's not Shaw is weakened just in a slightly different way

    Out of interest, who are players favoured by TikTok kids, and who did he leave out instead of them?
     
  14. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    It's a bit late to try it out now, but I guess there would have been an argument to see if Walker could fill in at left-back, since he's not been adding a huge amount going forward anyway.
     
  15. MrSnrub

    MrSnrub Member+

    Oct 7, 2018
    I don't think its the worst idea, clearly something has to give with the full back situation. The current situation is something of a disaster, with Walker ending up attacking more to compensate for Trippier, which weakens Walker a lot defensively and brings little in the attack. And given how unambitious Trippier is on the ball when he's out on the left, its hard to imagine someone struggling to replicate the role he has in the side.

    Stil, I think Gomez to left back is probably the easiest option which would feasibly free up TAA on the right side, though it seems unlikely we'll do it.
     
  16. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021


     
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  17. Inter Row Z

    Inter Row Z Member+

    Oldham Athletic
    England
    Mar 26, 2023
    I'd go with Gomez and Trent as the full-back pairing too. As we saw with Andy Robertson the season before last, it's not an easy role being the disciplined left-back to an inverted or more expansive right-back like Trent. But l thought Joe Gomez played the role pretty tidily when he got the chance for Liverpool. That understanding the two have could be mighty useful.
     
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  18. Fireburn47

    Fireburn47 Member+

    West Ham United
    England
    Nov 5, 2021
    The most hyped players are Bellingham. Foden, Saka, Mainoo, Trent, Watkins and Palmer. However there is not much tik tok hype for Gomez or Konsa, the goalkeepers, Galllagher, Wharton, Toney and even Kane.

    Raahford when on form tended to have a lot of hype but that’s gone for now. Maddison as well but Grealish being left out has been more controversial as a whole and I think could define this tournament. Also a lot of annoyance at Southgate snubbing Tomori.
     
  19. Inter Row Z

    Inter Row Z Member+

    Oldham Athletic
    England
    Mar 26, 2023
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  20. TorontoCalabria

    Fiorentina
    Italy
    Sep 12, 2018
    #2870 TorontoCalabria, Jun 11, 2024 at 11:53 AM
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2024 at 12:15 PM
    Yes and plenty of teams have won tournaments bringing utility players and players that are not necessarily among the best 23/26 players their nation has to offer but the best player that plays their position professionally game in game out even if they are considered a "weak" name by fans.

    I agree with you in that sense. Plug a Ben Chilwell in. It is irrelevant if Trippier is a better right back than Chilwell is a left back. You are compromising in both scenarios and one is likely a more realistic compromise. Not every one needs to be a "star" name to do the job. You guys know the team far more than me so I won't derail your thread. It was just an observation I made as I saw many praising Southgate for taking the in form young players and not his chosen few and praising him for being bold.

    I think fans often overate young players at smaller clubs that score in double digits and extrapolate that they will only get better when they are unknowns this goes for all teams. I would rather have Grealish and Rashford than Eze and Bowen even if their numbers and form suggest not but I would also take an extra left back or utility player than an attacking midfielder or flair player that is not going to play much because when they increased the squads to 26 they basically gave coaches a gimme in that department so why put yourself in that predicament? To raise goodwill and get fans off your back so they can't say for decades after you never brought the best team?

    I can't speak to it in more detail than that because I only somewhat know the tactics he is asking the players to play and if he brought the personal that fit the tactics the most then job well done. When I see a lot of commentary I see people praising bringing names for names sake not so much how they will fit into the system over others but Im sure you guys can explain it well so I will happily read on.
     
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  21. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Get him in straight away for Sunday, he might blow a bit but he needs the fitness and you only get it by playing. It’s not ideal but with it being a short tournament I think it’s worth a punt.
     
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  22. ChristianSur

    ChristianSur Member+

    May 5, 2015
    Club:
    Sheffield Wednesday FC
    That's the thing. Being slightly reductive, Trippier's strongest suits are his crossing and creativity, which are neutered when he plays on the left. Walker's strongest suits are his pace and his one-on-one defending, which aren't. Even if they were both going to start, I think it might make more sense to swap them around.
     
  23. BarryfromEastenders

    Staff Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    All these articles about Trent in midfield lack any actual substance. One in the Telegraph saying he will flourish because the stats say so. Those stats are just assist stats from what I could see? (can’t read it anymore). Comparing him to Odegaard?

    Lallana doesn’t really explain why it’s a good idea. Just that he can learn the defensive side as he plays, Rice can help him and Trent’s creativity in the role will help :ninja:

    Rob Dorsett saying he’s our best passer as a reason for him playing there. He’s our most direct creative outlet but that doesn’t equate to best passer. The discussion seems very simplistic.

    This whole idea just seems very flimsy. I’m not seeing a convincing argument towards playing it. His passing is often high risk and he gets caught out of position a lot. It screams us getting killed on counters or just not protecting the space in front of our defence.

    Why didn’t Trent play this role in our biggest game of qualifying against Italy at home? We had the barely playing Kalvin Phillips starting and Henderson coming off the bench to replace him. That game was the only real test that would have proved anything about Trent’s quality in this role.
     
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  24. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The reason I suggested it is due to not trusting a back 4 with no left back and no left footed cb

    It would be better with Wharton than Gallagher if he and rice break up play and one covers when the other helps forward to overload

    it just helps with Walker not being good going forward, allows taa to play his natural role which he has cover and Saka, to play a position he played a lot for Arsenal and England in the past

    you can then get foden more involved and Jude able to play a bit more between midfield and attack
     
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  25. MUFC20

    MUFC20 Member

    Jul 28, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Agree, play him and sub him off after 60 minutes
     
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