I think it's too early to tell if VAR is fundamentally producing weaker referees than before, but it is definitely something to keep an eye on. It fundamentally is making referees less risk averse I think though. They just don't seem to be taking risks on big calls anymore. I thought with VAR that referees would be more likely to "round up" on a big decision (i.e. give the penalty kick or give the red card) instead it seems to be the opposite. As I said before, a good chunk of refereeing is guessing and making decisions based on a combination of feel, gut, context clues, and experience and that also includes your big decisions like send-offs and penalty kicks. Take the basic penalty kick decision that Gillett didn't give in the Tottenham match. It's such an easy decision to give if you just use your years of experience to come to an obvious conclusion. Also, a big part of refereeing and managing a game is selling your decisions and, essentially, lying to players and coaches. VAR has basically made the latter impossible. Take the penalty kick that Makkelie missed for handling in the Atletico match. Before, no referee would dare go and say "I didn't see it and I was blocked" like how Makkelie did to try and defuse the situation. They would lie, cheat, and steal to try and convince the players they got it right.
I think "weaker" and "different" are not necessarily the same, though. I also think the big league question might matter in a way we can't quite comprehend fully in the US. Elfath and Dickerson, for example, seem to be two referees who might be better because of how they can use VAR as a management tool that works with their personal skills. I've yet to see a single referee in the EPL even try to do that work with the exception of maybe Taylor. Anyway, I'm not taking a position on the "weaker" question but I have my suspicions. That said, if someone increases the ultimate accuracy of their calls but fades into the background, you can argue they are stronger or better. So the advent of VAR shouldn't inherently produce worse referees (which is what I read in the word "weaker"). I do think it might be killing the idea of bigger personalities in these leagues, though. Cultural the Spanish and Italian guys are always going to have some flair, but flair with the confidence of really owning the big moments and putting a personality on a match in the way that Brych, Mateu, Clattenburg, Webb, Orsato, Rocchi, Rizzoli, etc. would? We're just not seeing, are we? Marciniak. Turpin in his way. Now Letexier. But not from those top leagues. Agree with like 99-100% of this. And the Makkelie example is another good one. He seems to know how to use VAR to his advantage without losing his personality. It enhances his authority. But, again, not from one of those Big 4 leagues with the most scrutiny.
I think, separate from VAR, the amount of pressure and focus that has to go into refereeing every wee in the Premier League (or Bundesliga or Serie A) is just a really big mental and emotional load. You don’t get that same kind of pressure in the Polish or Romanian or Slovenian leagues. I think referees from those smaller countries are able to dedicate more of their focus to the big champions league games because they’re not under massive pressure with other stuff every weekend. (Saying this, I don’t have an explanation for why this seems to only be a recent problem. It’s not like the top leagues didn’t have tremendous pressure in the 2010s or 2000s.)
You are very wrong about that Kovacs is not very liked by Steaua fans. Steaua owner outright said "I don't want him to ref my team" like multiple times
And I once had an amateur team in Baltimore that really didn't like to see me. There's contrarian and then there's daft. No one said there wasn't pressure in Eastern European leagues. In fact, I'm sure in many ways the pressure can be more intense in certain narrow senses. But a billion people aren't watching or following the results/highlights of a domestic match in Romania. It's an entirely different thing. There's also a confidence that some of the top European referees from smaller countries can have going back into their domestic leagues, even if certain teams don't like them. Kovacs or Marciniak or Vincic are going to be bigger on the global stage than their domestic leagues and often their own national teams. A level of swagger comes with that, which insultates you from most or all domestic worries. The same simply cannot be said of the big names from the big leagues and, in fact, the issue can be inverted. In a lot of cases Oliver or Taylor screwing up a domestic match can be a much, much bigger problem for them than, say, having big issues in a Nations League game or UEFA club match that doesn't involve the absolute top clubs.
It is the same thing. I was not aware that pressure is quantifiable. Like 1 person = 1 PSI and more people = more PSI. 1 million people hounding you is the same as 100 million. Confidence to do what? How? What Americans and Indians think about Oliver does not make Oliver under more pressure. The pressure is from their domestic market
I’ll bite. Can you describe the source of the pressure Kovacs is under in the Romanian league? What happens if he has a bad match on the weekend? If Kovacs has a bad match in Europe, his Champions League season is at stake, and the matches he can get in big competitions or major tournaments - the stuff that ultimately he will look back on in 10 or 15 years as his main accomplishments - might take a hit. His international reputation is also at stake, something which matters quite a lot in the modern world where there are real post-career employment opportunities internationally for these referees, some of which would offer better pay and/or a better quality of life than he could get in Romania. Pretty much no matter what happens in Kovacs’ weekend match in Romania would have an affect on his career or his legacy. In the short term, what will happen? Maybe he doesn’t get a national Super Cup Final for a third or fourth time. It would take something spectacularly embarassing to even make a dent in his international reputation (I mean look at what Joao Pinheiro accomplished this year after having some real shockers domestically). And almost no matter what he does in the Romanian League, he will still retire as clearly the greatest Romania referee of all time. His legacy is World Cups, a trio of European finals including the Champions League, the whole lot. By comparison, whatever Steaua fans think about him isn’t going to really register to anyone that matters. For someone like Michael Oliver, his legacy and international reputation is dominated by his domestic work. His career accolades will include major title deciding matches in the Premier League. He’s done dozens of matches that, by some metrics, are more important than his World Cup quarterfinal. That’s just the reality of officiating in the biggest, richest, most-watched, most-globally-influential domestic league in the world. Marciniak himself has even stated that the level of readiness needed for a Polish league match is not on the same level as the Champions League.
Since kovacs was mentioned, we have direct evidence of his reputation taking a significantly bigger hit internationally vs Romania, and I’ve brought it up many times. In euro 2024 he had the 20 card game (over half were dissent) with Czech Republic vs Turkey. He has a YouTube video about his performance with 200k views on a main USA sports channel with his picture on the thumbnail three times While he still got the UCL final after this game, he got quite ridiculed for this performance. Meanwhile, I don’t think most soccer fans even know a single Romanian team like Steaua even exists, let alone how kovacs officiates them. I understand that as a Romanian and Steaua fan that you guys think your countryman is more important to you, but it’s not true at all
All refs in Romania can and are suspended He was also multiple times suspended in Romania The Romanian fans are the one threatening his actual life. That is pressure If you don't ref in your own league Kovacs is not getting international games either. In fact one ref of ours who seemed sure to get at least a Conference League game ********ed up in a Liga 1 game here and never got the chance You literally have no clue about Romania so I have no clue why you keep giving opinion on stuff you don't know about Legacy seen by whom? People outside Romania have a better opinion on Hagi than we do, for example Craciunescu and Porumboiu are the greatest refs we had What Steaua fans think about Kovacs is very relevant because Steaua has the most fans in Romania and Kovacs lives in Romania Michael Oliver lives in the UK. The globally part is irrelevant. What some Americans feel about him is literally irrelevant. If he was American then it would have mattered CL is at a higher level than every domestic league in the world You have no clue about his reputation in Romania as you don't live here or read our press. You are comparing 2 things one of which you know nothing about Every single word you wrote here has nothing to do with my actual point PS Most soccer fans couldn't give a shit about what American sports website and pundits think about football
Context https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1tetk3x/celtic_21_hearts_daizen_maeda_87/ Let me guess not a major tournament
Again I’m not necessarily pro-VAR but we have to acknowledge that in the last 8 days VAR has saved British domestic leagues from 3 title-deciding refereeing mistakes, and most people deep down believe there’s a fundamental value to that.
Again, pre-VAR that play is killed immediately so there is no goal to disallow. It would just be a minor footnote of a missed offside that denied a team a decent goal scoring opportunity. I will say that is a shockingly bad flag. You should not be getting that wrong at that level.
You think the masses believe the handball call for Celtic was a good thing and that it prevented a “title-deciding referee mistake?” I mean, you can believe that. But saying that most people do and that we have to acknowledge it… I have no idea how one consumes media around our sport and can actually think those two things are true.
I’m not saying most people believe that the Motherwell incident was a handball. Most people are stupid and wrong thanks to the media environment of 2026. It was a clear handball. Independent of people’s views of that individual play, I think most people believe that getting clear game-changing, title-hanging decisions right is fundamentally important. The fact that the masses are too stupid to know the right answer on this particular play is a separate issue.
I posted in the other thread, but what exactly is the virtue of punishing the alleged offence as a penalty when the ball (presuming it definitely hits the hand) also hits the head with force and is cleared out for a throw in or corner? Being technically correct isn’t the only thing in the world. And it definitely shouldn’t be in refereeing. I would argue that the masses actually understand that and far too many in refereeing circles don’t.
I definitely hear that argument but at the same time, imagine the roles were reversed and Celtic committed this handball and it wasn’t punished. Everyone would be outraged by it because the narrative is that they want Celtic to lose and that everything in Scotland is rigged in their favor. The facts don’t actually matter to most of these fans. They’ll support and believe whatever fits their narrative.
I think you’re imagining things that are untrue. Most people see a ball headed out. End of story. Only with replays and zoom do you start to see the possibility or likelihood it also hit a hand. The fact that this benefits Celtic given the dynamics adds fuel to the fire, sure. But it’s because the unexpected call was made via VAR. Reverse the teams and make it the expected call…? It’s a nothing burger, which is my point.
Pre-VAR the guy who is 1 meter onside passes the ball ...whistle is blown ... Celtic player continues the play scores or not irrelevant ... and we have 10+ years of what ifs from Celtic fans... But I love how fate has given a perfect example of the offside you wanted 10 days after you asked for it and you dismiss it outright with a bullshit reason because it is easier to do that that admit you are wrong BTW I have another example of a blatant offside pre VAR. I had it saved in my imgur account. Goal was scored but it was given as offside