UEFA Competitions 2023-2024 Referee Discussions [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 23, 2023.

  1. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
  2. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's fun. I wonder if the ref missed it or thought a defender touched it on the way through.
     
  3. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Full highlights. Turns out no one thought a "double touch" var graphic was ever going to be needed.

     
  4. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Some here will hate it, but if there was EVER a time to have a referee verbally announce a VAR decision, this is it. Indirect free kick so it looks like offside
     
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  5. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    Dani Parejo (Villarreal #10) would be my guess.
     
  6. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    His body language in the moments after seems odd. He seems to stay close to the fk taker and I think is talking. I wonder if they suspected but wasn't 100%

    Or maybe I'm just seeing things.
     
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  7. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    No, I don't think you're seeing things--he's definitely engaged with Le Fee, almost to the point of distraction.
     
  8. TxSooner

    TxSooner Member

    Aug 12, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas


    Lindsay Horan picks up a straight red card in this WCL match. The clip didn't cover what instigated this, which was the opponent coming from behind and challenging with with what amounted to a hip check. Those two players got into it a bit about a minute earlier which seemed to spill over into this incident.

    My guess it was the colorful language Horan used if you're able to read lips. Plenty of players surrounding the referee in this incident as well.
     
  9. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Here’s the full sequence. Tackler didn’t receive a yellow for that challenge

    https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/SM7QHDd58B
     
  10. AlextheRef

    AlextheRef Member

    Jun 29, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Based on the referee's body language it appears to me that she was going to give Horan a caution, but then changed her decision after she heard whatever Horan yelled at the other player. Abusive language send off, from the looks of things. From what I know about Horan, it probably was pretty abusive.

    Based on reactions online, this looks like yet another example where a referee actually punishes someone for abusive language, but then the footballing world shows outrage over the "soft" red card. I wonder if we'll ever find out what Horan said specifically?

    Seems like the classic double standard of wanting refs to be authoritarian over player verbal misconduct in the abstract, but then getting mad when someone is the first mover and actually does something about it. I'm seeing people say this was a sexist decision because "it would never happen in a men's game that way" and that there is a "lack of consistency." The referees can't win currently.
     
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  11. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    I'm not Jomboy, but it does not appear she used the F-bomb.

    A straight red for Abusive Language makes me wonder if it was a homophobic slur. Argument against it would be the number of players protesting the eventual red card that is about to come out.

    In modern era women's pro leagues, you're extremely unlikely to get a red card for yelling "F-You" to a player.
     
  12. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    A persons head passes right by her mouth as she says something so it’s probably too hard to see what she actually says but it looks like she makes an f sound with her mouth to me


    Dissent and abusive language will never be viewed favorably among fans/the public. Even further hypocrisy when the British EPL fans say how much they like rugbys respect for referees and want soccer to have that, but for some reason feel that at the same time soccer referees deserve to be disrespected and have dissent and abusive language spewed at them and punishing it makes them thin skinned
     
  13. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I’m no Jomboy either but I think she called the opponent a “f*g”.

    Whatever it was the R immediately went red. And I counted 8 players surrounding her and notably Horan wasn’t in the frame at the time.
     
  14. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    This is what I was hinting at, but I don't think folks were reading between-the-lines.

    It might also explain why the Referee didn't immediately pull the red card. We've all had those "Did I hear what I THINK I just heard?" moments.
     
  15. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    If the US women's soccer team's captain used a homophobic slur, the Internet would've melted by now.
     
  16. StarTime

    StarTime Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2020
    1) It would have to see reports that that happened first before it could melt down over it. It doesn’t even seem like most people realize this was an Abusive Language red card, they think it was for the shove.

    2) I think you’re underestimating the extend to which halo effect biases affect the general public. For a relatively well-liked player (she is the captain of the USWNT after all), most American WoSo fans would probably be inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt or even turn most the blame onto the opponent or the referee.

    3) It doesn’t have to be a racial or homophobic slur… there’s got to be some middle ground between language that is totally acceptable (no punishment) and language that would warrant a multi-game ban plus severe media backlash. Language can rise to the level of a red card without being that bad. And of course, there’s so much subjectivity and gray area with these things that no two people will assess the severity of language the same way. I’m not a lip-reader so I’ll defer to others on that, but unless someone can get a good read on them, there’s no reason anyone should be jumping to the conclusion that she said something homophobic.
     
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  17. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Jumping right to that is quite a claim. She could have easily said f you, or f you and something else, even that could hit AL if the ref wants. Any sort of homophobic slur would be quite a controversy. And since AL is somewhat of a subjective decision, this ref might feel f you directed at a player is worthy of that while another ref might not.

    Would have been nice to see the ref give a YC for that reckless tackle. Maybe if she had it out quickly it could have stopped the result.
     
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  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We're just glossing over the fact that #5 runs in from distance and pushes the referee in the back, right? She notices, too. Or she gets alerted by her trail AR and looks over afterward.

    I must say, whatever the merits of this decision I think this is the first time I've seen this sort of crowding in an effort to prevent a card being shown in a women's game. Hell, it's very rare to see it in a UEFA-level men's game (certain domestic men's competitions are obviously not included in that statement). To me, it's a reminder that if you have a red on something like this, just show it and be done with it. This was never going to be clean, but it could have been a lot cleaner.

    And I have no idea what was said, but it seems pretty obvious that it was for language as she was initially going yellow and changes her mind. I find it at least mildly interesting that this is a Belorussian referee--I don't know anything, so would like to learn more about how experienced she is at this level and, to be frank, how strong her English is. Obviously (I hope) she knows the necessary words, but sometimes "limited but sufficient" can be worse than "no knowledge" in situations like this. I'm picturing a very Anglo- referee in the US trying to police language in an amateur Hispanic league after getting a solid C+ in high school Spanish. Of course, I could be barking up the wrong tree on that.

    It's almost a full day later. We haven't learned anything? This is all I see of relevance:

    Of course, that's one side of the story. It would support my theory above. But anything from the Lyon side is always going to be the most favorable account.
     
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  19. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    It feels like a miscarriage of justice. Horan gets a bad challenge from behind, was going to get a yellow for her response to it, which gets changed to red, and the offender still gets no punishment from doing it. I can understand the team side being pissed about it

    And the red card taking so long to come out is a bad look, as is usually the case when there is any delay in yellow or red cards coming out
     
  20. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    When you watch the longer provided Reddit clip, the only comment that is 90% certain is at the 47 second mark Horan says what appears to be "I wasn't talking to you".

    Both times when Horan is barking, turns and clearly looking at the opponent, it's hard to believe the referee would think that she's talking to her.

    Listening to the ladies speak after VAR decisions in WWC2022 was cringeworthy and unfair as we could barely understand most of them. While the English language factor now seems to have played a factor, it doesn't explain everything that happened.
     
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  21. gaolin

    gaolin Member+

    Apr 21, 2019
    During the Super Cup semi with Real Madrid vs Atletico Madrid, the RMA goalkeeper grabs the referee by the shoulder and spins him around to protest a decision.

    I understand the mentality of keeping all players on the pitch, it's a final, it's two super club... but what young players see...
     
  22. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I’ve said before that I think there needs to be pretty close to zero tolerance for any contact with officials while protesting a decision. The NBA did it, and guess what? It almost never happens because players know the consequences and know it is basically automatic. How we got to a point with bumping and grabbing refs, I just don’t understand.
     
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your initial R16 UCL appointments:

    Leipzig : Real Madrid - PELJTO (BIH)
    Kobenhavn : Manchester City - SANCHEZ MARTINEZ (ESP)

    Lazio : Bayern - LETEXIER (FRA)
    PSG : Real Sociedad - GUIDA (ITA)
     
  24. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Already a big var moment three minutes into Leipzig/Real Madrid
     
  25. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

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