Code: [size=2] [b][Color=blue]Chicago Fire[/color][/b] [b][u]Player_Name Games Minutes Goals Assists Points[/b][/u] Beasley 22 1969 7 5 19 Mapp 21 1384 3 3 9 Jaqua 20 712 2 2 6 Gray 28 1910 2 1 5 Capano 5 122 0 0 0 Pause 23 1354 0 0 0 [b]Totals 119 7451 14 11 39[/b] [b][Color=blue]Columbus Crew[/color][/b] [b][u]Player_Name Games Minutes Goals Assists Points[/b][/u] Martino 22 1765 2 4 8 Buddle 21 1509 10 4 24 Akwari 11 488 0 0 0 Perea 1 34 0 0 0 Ritch 3 21 0 0 0 [b]Totals 58 3817 12 8 32[/b] [b][Color=blue]Colorado Rapids[/color][/b] [b][u]Player_Name Games Minutes Goals Assists Points[/b][/u] Beckerman 28 2124 0 5 5 Borchers 23 2101 0 0 0 Trembly 16 1112 1 1 3 Schmidt 13 363 0 2 2 [b]Totals 80 5700 1 8 10[/b] [b][Color=blue]Dallas Burn[/color][/b] [b][u]Player_Name Games Minutes Goals Assists Points[/b][/u] Countess 24 2194 0 0 0 Davis 26 1910 6 5 17 Johnson 22 1265 3 0 6 Stone 16 1057 0 0 0 Salyer 8 491 0 0 0 Urbas 3 40 0 0 0 [b]Totals 99 6957 9 5 23[/b] [b][Color=blue]D.C. United[/color][/b] [b][u]Player_Name Games Minutes Goals Assists Points[/b][/u] Convey 19 1576 2 1 5 Quaranta 12 738 1 3 5 Eskandarian 23 728 3 2 8 Warren 5 404 0 0 0 Barclay 3 113 0 0 0 Perea 1 4 0 0 0 [b]Totals 63 3563 6 6 18[/b] [b][Color=blue]Kansas City Wizards[/color][/b] [b][u]Player_Name Games Minutes Goals Assists Points[/b][/u] Burciaga 4 347 0 0 0 Jewsbury 2 61 0 0 0 [b]Totals 6 408 0 0 0[/b] [b][Color=blue]Los Angeles Galaxy[/color][/b] [b][u]Player_Name Games Minutes Goals Assists Points[/b][/u] Lewis 13 798 0 0 0 Gonzalez 6 129 0 0 0 Gomez 1 5 0 0 0 [b]Totals 20 932 0 0 0[/b] [b][Color=blue]New York/New Jersey Metrostars[/color][/b] [b][u]Player_Name Games Minutes Goals Assists Points[/b][/u] Clark 28 2590 3 1 7 Magee 29 1709 7 2 16 Regan 15 747 0 0 0 Gaven 12 691 1 1 3 Arena 10 458 0 0 0 [b]Totals 94 6195 11 4 26[/b] [b][Color=blue]San Jose Earthquakes[/color][/b] [b][u]Player_Name Games Minutes Goals Assists Points[/b][/u] Donovan 22 1882 12 6 30 Alvarez 15 655 1 1 3 Walker 19 365 4 0 8 Levesque 3 43 0 0 0 [b]Totals 59 2945 17 7 41[/b] [/size] In case you were wondering, as far as I can tell, New England has the dubious distinction of being the only team this year to not even field an Olympic age-elligible player. Blame Nicol. Here would be my 2003 regular-season All-MLS 11: Donovan--Buddle Beasley-Convey-Martino-Clark Lewis-Akwari-Borchers-Gray Countess I think Burciaga is a shoe-in on the back line if he doesn't get hurt, replacing Akwari. I also have Beckerman, Brad Davis, and Justin Mapp as 1st choice subs. Factor in Casey, Yi, and Onyewu, and I think the team has pretty much taken shape. Compared to our last Olympic team, this one has so much more experience it truly is remarkable. Whether or not Bruce Arena's hand-picked coach (and team) can duplicate Clive & Co's 4th place finish, we'll see.
You left out a few players: Jake LeBlanc of the Metros, Curt Spiteri of the Fire (after seeing the tape, I understand why you left him out), Clint Baumstark of MLS who played for and is currently with United, and Jesus Ochoa of the Galaxy. Also, I'm pretty sure Beckerman's goal total was much less than five.
Thanks Nutmeg for compiling this list. Looking into the future it seems our biggest problem seems to be defense.
Huh? Code: [size=2] [b][Color=blue]Colorado Rapids[/color][/b] [b][u]Player_Name Games Minutes Goals Assists Points[/b][/u] Beckerman 28 2124 0 5 5 [/size] But yes, Spiteri had an awful game last night. SgtSchultz, you're welcome.
Any of you guys get to see Jaqua play last night? You can't help but be impressed with his foot skills. The guy is a friggin' goliath. He should be in the picture for the Olympic team.
Jaqua has really come on strong the last part of the season. For a long time, I think Fire fans were critical of taking him so high (3rd overall) in the draft but I doubt they feel that strongly about that point now. What impresses me is here is this 6-3 kid who has been a striker his whole life motoring up and down the right flank. It's not just that he has the pace to play out there (though I suspect some smaller, fast players in the Beasley mode would give him fits) but that he does the work on defense and is comfotable taking guys on 1-v-1 and crossing. With the much-discussed question mark at rght mid for the 23s, I think this is a guy who has totally played himself into the picture for Mooch. Changing gears, I agree with Nutmeg that the amount of experience this U23 pool has is impressive. I mean, four years ago, kids who were having strong seasons in college the year before the Olympics were a huge part of the Olympic pool (Califf, Vagenas, Victorine, Adin Brown, Conor Casey, Denton). This year, kids like Knox Cameron, Adolfo Gregorio, Steve Cronin, Matt Taylor and Chad Marshall are having tremendous college seasons and have almost no chance of making the Olympic team. The only college player who has a chance is Wingert and even that is no sure thing.) What impresses me most about the current pool is the depth of talent that won't make the team. Here's a hypotherical U23 team 18-man roster, in bold, with the players at those positions who aren't picked in italics. Donovan, Casey, Buddle, E. Johnson (Eskandarian, Jaqua, Jamil Walker, Quaranta, Magee, Cooper, Karbassiyoon) Martino, Clark, Beckerman, Mapp, Convey, Beasley (Davis, Stone, Pause, Carroll, D. Johnson, Trembly, Testo, Gaven, Barclay, Alvarez, Ochoa, Capano, LeBlanc) Onyewu, Yi, Whitbread, Lewis, Gray, Wingert (Borchers, Simek, Akwari, Burciaga, Regan, Salyer, Stokes, Arena) Countess, Warren (Saunders, Spiteri, Baumstark, Yelldell) In years past, the guys in italics would have been locks to make the Olympic team (and some still will) but this year most won't.
Nutmeg, thanks for compiling these numbers. Just looking at these numbers provides some interesting items for comparison, some (or most) of which may be kinda meaningless, but which struck me as semi-interesting/fascinating. --The team with the best regular season record (Fire) was the team that got the most minutes (7400+) out of their U23 players. --The team with the worst regular season record, the Burn, was the team with the second most minutes from the U23 group. --Only two teams -- the best (Fire) and the worst (Burn) had 4 U23 players with over 1000 minutes each. --Most appearances overall? Mike Magee. --Fewest minutes with 20 appearances or more? Nate Jacqua. Second: Alecko Escandarian. --Most minutes with less than 20 appearances? Bobby Convey. Second: Seth Trembly. --"Making the most of your minutes" award -- indisputably goes to Jamil Walker with 4 goals in under 400 minutes. --Players with goals but no assists? Walker, Ed Johnson. --Players with assists but not goals? Beckerman, Schmidt. --Fewest appearances? Perea and Gomez (each 1). --Of the the 39 U23 players, only 4 got 2000 minutes or more -- Beckerman, Borchers, Countess, and Clark. --Duos on teams that had more minutes combined than the entire U23 contingent on the San Jose Earthquakes. Beckerman & Borchers; Clark & Magee; Countess & Davis; Davis & Johnson; Martino & Buddle; Mapp & Gray.
You forgot Carroll and Stokes from D.C. 0 0 0 0 0 Great job, Ray. Does the SPL still have a rule where teams have to have a certain amount of U-21 or U-23 players? I'd love to see MLS do that.
Karl, I think the most interesting data from this is that the two top teams in both conferences, Chicago and San Jose, got more points from their U23's than any other team. It's not whether or not you simply have and play your young guys, it's how you play them that matters. Sarachan and Yallop have done a better job of putting their young guys in positions where they can be successful than any other two coaches in the league. That's why San Jose and Chicago are the teams to beat this year. Another piece of information that I found pretty insightful was the "almost Olympic" group - the 80's. It seemed like there were quite a few players from that year who have had significant impact in MLS at a young age, but missed the Oly cutoff by very little. Players in that group include Noonan, Roner, Dunivant, etc.
You could put together a pretty good team with just the 80s. Here are the ones who played in MLS or are in Europe. Davy Arnaud (6/22) Matt Behncke (2/20) Chris Brunt (1/1) Dan Califf (3/17) Chris Carrieri (4/28) Matt Crawford (8/20) Todd Dunivant (12/26) Cory Gibbs (1/14) Taylor Graham (6/3) Ryan Futagaki (1/17) Zach Kingsley (1/18) Marshall Leonard (12/18) Jeff Matteo (8/8) Pat Noonan (8/2) Chris Roner (3/4) Jeff Stewart (6/21) Arturo Torres (12/11) Taylor Twellman (2/29) Intersting that if Dunivant, Leoanard and Torres were all born just a bit later, we'd have a lot fewer questions about left back and right mid.
Of course, San Jose's numbers are "skewed" somewhat by the presence of LD, whereas the Fire are more "balanced" in that regard, though they too had the benefit of a key senior team guy. I think it's also instructive to remember that the Fire basically had no choice but to go with the "youth is served" movement. Nowak, Stoitchkov, and Kovalenko were gone, victims of age/salary cap; Marsch was hurt most of early part of the season; Faria was out of the picture due to unfortunate visa/family problems; Razov coming off off injury/suspension; Armas was coming off his ACL tear. Going into the season, things looked dicey indeed. So, for the kids, it was frying pan into the REAL fire, as Dave threw them out there to sink or swim. (Sometimes I love mixin' those metaphors!, and yes, Dave did a great job of deploying them). What is remarkable is how so many of these guys stepped up to the plate. (there, I'll stop now).
Karl, were those kids on the Fire taking it one game at a time, giving 110 percent and just trying to help the team?
You are not seriously suggesting that Torres would be a threat to start at right midfield for the Olympic team if eligible?
That's a darn good line-up. The big question, as discussed in another thread, is how many of these guys are going to play since there is a World Cup qualifier in the middle of the Olympics. Will Donovan and Beasley in particular and maybe others even be there.
Interesting set of player options. Just out of curiousity, what is the latest take on Casey? I must say that during the last Olympics, I felt he had some basic soccer flaws that would not allow him to rise to a high professional level. My sense (based on a total lack of tangible evidence combined with what I can read between the lines from Germany div. 2 game reports) is that there are a variety of new choices who have surpassed anything Casey has to offer, Magee in particular.
Other interesting thing is going to be what the "brain trust" decides to do with the 3 overage players. Solidy that backline (Boca, Pope)? Look for a steadying influence in the middle (Armas)? Or maybe a goal-scorer (TT)? Or just leave it alone and let the team go as a straight U-23? (I'd prefer the later, fwiw).
Qualification MUST be with a U-23 squad. The overage option is only for the Olympics itself. Let's qualify first, then see who's healthy, who's available, and what the team needs are before worrying about overage players. Friedel was added 3 years ago only after Adin Brown was hurt and Clive and Co. decided to upgrade the goalkeeping.
Yeah, of course you're right. Part of what I'm driving at is whether, with that talent, we should just keep it a U-23 team. I'm pretty sure Spain and Brazil did that last Olys. I just like the idea of not adding in dudes like Hejduk at the last minute (I'm not a Hejduk basher, not my point).
My 18 man roster. Forwards: Donovan Buddle Johnson Magee Midfielders: Beasley Convey Davis Martino Clark Gray Backs: Burciaga Whitebred Borchers Beckerman Onyewu Simek Keepers: Countess Baumstark
I still think there will be one or two young guys in MLS next year that surprise us and make the team. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Klaas from UW make a strong case at Right Back, especially considering our lack of a clear frontrunner at the position (Gooch in my mind is still a toss-up between central and outside defender). On the Olympic team, we have two positions that are still completely up in the air - right back and right midfield. If two U20's perform well in MLS or elsewhere next year, they might make a quick jump up to the Olympic team.
I respectfully disagree. In the midfield, we have Convey, Clark, Martino, Beasley, Beckerman and potentially even Donovan. Any Under 20 would have to have a great year in MLS to break into this group, even if they happen to be more comfortable at that position. The coaches will figure something out about right midfield rather than use some player of lower quality. The only exceptions are Eddie Johnson because of his exceptional physical gifts combined with skill and Santino Quarenta for his exceptional skill. But even they are really longshots. As for right back, I know Kelly Gray can play there now and Gooch sure could two years ago. I think it is a real long shot that a collegian like Klaas, despite whatever gifts he has, could jump ahead of a great talent like Gooch and a guy like Gray who starts for the best team in the league.
For a bit of history, Kelly Gray had a hard time getting minutes earlier in the season, but has seen lots more time as the year has progressed. The real plus for the Fire is that he is very versatile, and can move from defense to midfield and back again easily. I don't know whether he is fast enought to playin the back at the senior international level but that versatility will lmake him an attactive candidate. He has played quite of bit of right back for the Fire, and has done well, thought I would argue that in doing so he playing "out of position." When Bocanegra goes overseas, Kelly I think will slide right into his position. If that happens next year, then he will surely get a couple thousand minutes in MLS and his career will contiue its upward arc.
Here's Mooch and Klaas talking about it. *Myernick said it will be difficult for players on the current U20 team whom he hasn’t already brought in to crack his 18-man roster after they return from the UAE. “I think there’s a couple of them who could, based on the reports of how some of them do (at the World Youth Championship), raise or lower their stock for preparing for Mexico. But there’s already a pretty decent pool, particularly with the 81s and 82s. Any 84s are going to have to be absolutely exceptional to get in.” http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/NationalTeams/20031014110712/view And... Also factoring into the players’ decision to turn pro is the 2004 Olympics, which the U.S. U23 team is attempting to qualify for early next year (assuming it wins a home and away preliminary qualifying round with St. Kitts in November). “Most definitely, the Olympics are a big role in my decision.,” said Klaas. “It’s going to be hard for us on the U20 team to crack that roster, especially, for us who are still in school. If we turn pro there’s a chance we could show well and still make the team but it will be impossible if we’re still in college.” http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/NationalTeams/20031027073330/view