U.S. Third-Quarter GDP rises at 6% pace - highest since 1999

Reading bigsoccer politics forums threads are futile. This topic is a perfect example.

The "left wing" crowd seems to think it's inconcievable that anyone would abuse the welfare system....and when fraud is reported here they are quick to bring up corperate welfare - even though it's irrelevant to the duscussion (do two wrongs make a right?). The Left wingers think that anyone unemployed is hard working and got stiffed by the current President's policies.


The "right wing" people think everyone on welfare is a scumbag lowlife and no one could ever possibly really need some help due to several factors outside of someone's control. They think everyone should just get a job and take care of themselves. I have a feeling that even if a single mother of 4 was hit by a bus, people here would think that the children should work in factories. When a CEO is stealing from pension funds the right wing crowd here is silent because one of thier party's big contributors just got caught commiting a heinous crime.


The "left wing crowd" thinks Unions could never ever possibly be in the wrong, they are simply fighting for workers rights against the big evil corperations. Even though during the Detroit Newspaper strikes the employees were living at a higher level than most doing comparable work around the country. Even when the Unions murdered a scab worker, the left wingers in Metro Detroit stood by them. Now at the big 3 auto makers Unions want Cel Phones for all employees, 1 hour and 45 minutes breaks per 8 hour day, etc etc the truth is that some Union jobs have left the U.S. because of Unions. There have been several Companies that have bankrutped because of Unions. Maybe not most jobs, but several Auto related jobs have left becuase of Union abuse. In Detroit at least, Unions are growing very unpopular and with good reason.


The "Right Wingers" cry Union abuse even when Unions are simply asking for safer worker conditions or better health insurance plans. Not all unions are like the ones I mentioned above, but Right wingers don't seem to believe it.



Left wingers think Universal health care is the answer to all life's problems. Never mind that several thousand Canadians come to the U.S. and pay out of thier pocket for what they deem to be better health care. Never mind that all thru Europe people die on waiting list, or even go to unlicensed doctors to get surgeries done because of the red tape involved in socialized health care. They are quick to bring up 48 million uninsured but never bring up free health clinics that already exist, medicare, medic aid or the 240 million that do have health insurance.


Right wingers mock universal health care but never say a word about the poor who are left with $40,000 medical bills due to emergency hernia operations. They think the uninsured should just go get jobs that have health insurance.


What does this have to do with the topic? Not much but this thread is a good example of why no one should read these forums anymore - no one here is in touch with middle America. Just like with Clinton, people are defending or blaming Bush because of his party affiliation and not the facts.

 

Guys, the recent GDP rising is very artificial - it's bought to you by the Bush administration using the crazy extremely low interest rates, and the so called tax cut. This rise of GDP is fake and unsustainable in that it is not induced by the real engines of economic grow - manufacuring activity, increaing employment, infrastructure investment, and high incoming. All of which are in non-existance. The rise of the GDP is brought by the cheap credit, which caused excessive borrowing and spending, therefore translating to the higher GDP.

America's economy under Bush is heading to the drains. The current higher GDP is like the soberness of a dying man. Jobs are moving overseas; real income is stagnated; deficit is snowballing to dangerous size. It is the foreigners who are financing your current housing bubble, credit bubble, and american people have no savings, have no physical investment on domestic front. All they have is DEBTs. Disaster is waiting to happen.

Good luck to everyone who is high here.

 

Ted, not all left-wingers think there isn't any fraud in the welfare system...

It's a case of pointing to the person stealing the slice of bread, while the one who already has what they need take the whole loaf...

It's about drawing lines, and not allowing corporations to run roughshod, and dictate our policies, I cannot vote out a CEO, I can however, vote for my political leaders...

I don't believe in the myth of meritocracy this idiot house18 is claiming we live in. He uses himself as an example, and then doesn't care to fill in the details because all of a sudden it's too "personal" and we all need "anger management" because he's personally offended people's sensibilities... He's a liar, and doesn't like being called on it. He's very much like our president, either he's being disingenuous, or he's a damned fool. So since he's holding back the information, we are more than justified in coming to the conclusion that he's a little bit of both...

There's nothing futile in discourse... I think we all know better than to expect a fair, and perfect world. However, I don't think it's too much to expect us to try... No matter how futile it seems...

 

Trying to figure out when I said I wouldn't "fill in the details" or that it is "too personal." I'd like to know how I am lying as well. Oh and I said you needed anger management because your reponse was all cursing and calling names pissed off. Oh, that's right these things you claim never actually happened, so I guess if any one is a liar that would be you! Now go ahead and call me names and curse at me, that's your way!

 

Please feel free, to then fill in all the details as to how your life turned out so swell through nothing but your own hard work and talent, and how there were no outside influences creating the circumstances in which you thrived. Obviously, you're an example for us all! Especially those whining because they are unemployed...

Dazzle us...

 

AHHHHHH CHOOOOOOO!

sorry must be all the straw.

This must be a record for the number of straw men set up and knocked down in one single post.

Not that I don't agree with the thought behind some of the post.

 

From those bolsheviks over at Money magazine...

http://money.cnn.com/2003/11/04/news/economy/challenger/index.htm?cnn=yes

Jobless recovery, anyone? Discuss.

 

Re: From those bolsheviks over at Money magazine...

as i said before: there is no such animal - well at least there was no 'mission accomplished' banner...

 

Switzerland makes Hong Kong look like Cuba and the Swiss haven't been in a war since 1815.

 

Re: Re: From those bolsheviks over at Money magazine...

Gee, where have all the triumphalist right wingers got themselves to?

Ian? Michael? Sally18? Ted?

 

Re: Re: Re: From those bolsheviks over at Money magazine...

I don't count as a conservative because I have Reason "Let Ben & Jerry's sell Morphine Mint if they want" Magazine and Cato "Sell Yosemite to the highest bidder if Nike can afford to paint a Swoosh on Half Dome" bookmarked.

But what's your solution to the unemployment rate that is quickly racing back up to Carter administration levels?

You want more government intervention in the economy? You want the nitwits who can't find Osama or weapons of mass destruction picking which products we buy, who is allowed to sell what, which products we are allowed to import and which have to be made in the USA?

You want the new Republican governors in California, Kentucky & Mississippi to decide who works where & what you can buy?

You want to raise taxes on the rich? All that will do is increase cases of karoshi (death from overwork) among Cayman Islands accountants & British Virgin Islands trust fund administrators.

Granted, people spend money on dumb things. There should definitely be a law against buying Chicago Fire tickets & merchandise. That would improve the economy & society in general.

But it's really hard to beat the government at spending money in dumb ways.

 

Like spending $87.5B in Iraq. To pay for the war efforts so far, every tax payer needs to work 5.5 days to cover the expense. The feds are spending money like it's going out of style, with over 18% increase in federal spending, in real terms, since beginning 2001.

However, tax policy is often designed for the purposes of social engineering, for which the Bush administration is claiming success. Personally, I am highly dubious about the veracity of this claim.

First, consider that Bush and his adminstrations have a long standing habit of telling lies. On that comes to mind is the claim that the Houston school district retention rates = 100% comes to mind. Rod Paige, then Houston superintendent, is now Bush's secretary of education. So the administration has a predisposition to fraudently reporting statistics regarding domestic affairs.

http://www.childrenfirstamerica.org/DailyNews/03Apr/0404035.htm

Second, the timing is very opportune in that Bush had been (correctly) criticized for mismanaging the economy. Tax cuts during war time could be considered long term financial suicide. Suddenly, out of nowhere and to every well-informed economists' surprise, there is unexpected growth in GDP.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/031031/pi200310307772_pi032_1.html

Ending on hand inventories were higher than expected. There are several ways to value inventory, and this number can be managed to produce a desireable result.

Third, the department of commerce does not provide any sort of financial details or footnotes to support their data. Here is the data.

http://www.bea.gov/briefrm/tables/ebr1.htm

It has many inconsistencies. Interesting to note that federal spending is up 10% from 2002. Reading the levels number set for federal spending, you see a monotonic increase in spending for about 2-3% per quarter. Go to the percentage increase summary and you see jumps of as much as 25% quarter-to-quarter growth. There are many, many more such errors which make the document unreadable.

It is very well possible that the underlying data was managed to produce the higher-than-expected 7.2% growth rate.