U-20s vs Brazil [R]

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by dheck, Aug 29, 2002.

  1. dheck

    dheck Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Chapel Hill, NC, USA
    Well, no [R] yet, obviously.

    There's speculation in other threads about what Rongen's line-up will be. For purposes of reference/discussion, the line-ups used so far have been:

    Vs Brazil
    1-Steve Cronin;
    4-Chefik Simo, 5-Ryan Cochrane, 14-Chad Marshall, 8-C.J. Klaas
    3-Justin Mapp, 11-Ricardo Clark, 10-Ned Grabavoy, 15-David Johnson
    13-Devin Barclay, 7-Eddie Johnson.

    2-Jordan Stone, 41 (for Mapp)
    17-Raul Palomares, 64 (for Grabavoy)
    20-Mike Magee, 74 (for Simo)

    Subs not used: 6-Jordan Harvey, 12-Chris Lancos, 16-Knox Cameron, 18-Ford Williams, 19-Mike Ambersley, 21-Craig Capano.

    Vs Italy
    1-Steve Cronin
    4-Chefik Simo, 5-Ryan Cochrane, 14-Chad Marshall, 8-C.J. Klaas
    3-Justin Mapp, 11-Ricardo Clark, 10-Ned Grabavoy, 15-David Johnson
    13-Devin Barclay, 7-Ed Johnson

    Subs not used: 2-Jordan Stone, 6-Jordan Harvey, 12-Chris Lancos, 16-Knox Cameron, 17-Raul Palomares, 18-Ford Williams, 19-Mike Ambersley, 20-Mike Magee, 21-Craig Capano.

    Vs Ukraine
    18-Ford Williams
    4-Chefik Simo, 6-Jordan Harvey, 12-Chris Lancos, 8-C.J. Klaas
    21-Craig Capano, 2-Jordan Stone, 17-Raul Palomares, 19-Mike Ambersley
    20-Mike Magee, 16-Knox Cameron

    14-Chad Marshall, 41 (for Simo)
    15-David Johnson, 41 (for Klaas)

    Subs not used: 1-Steve Cronin, 3-Justin Mapp, 5-Ryan Cochrane, 7-Ed Johnson, 10-Ned Grabavoy, 11-Ricardo Clark, 13-Devin Barclay.

    Vs Uruguay
    1-Steve Cronin
    4-Chefik Simo, 5-Ryan Cochrane, 14-Chad Marshall, 8-C.J. Klaas
    3-Justin Mapp, 11-Ricardo Clark, 10-Ned Grabavoy, 15-David Johnson
    13-Devin Barclay , 7-Ed Johnson

    16-Knox Cameron, 79 (for Ed Johnson)
    2-Jordan Stone, 81+ (for Clark)

    Subs not used: 6-Jordan Harvey, 12-Chris Lancos, 17-Raul Palomares, 18-Ford Williams, 19-Mike Ambersley, 20-Mike Magee, 21-Craig Capano.

    So the same line-up has started three of the four. Barclay is out on cards, so Magee would appear to be taking his place.

    The relevant questions would seem to be:

    Can the other 10 all start another game on one day's rest?

    Will Rongen want to throw something different at Brazil than he did the first time around?

    Did anyone (besides) Magee impress enough in the Ukraine game to merit a starting role today?

    Does Rongen want to see more of any of the players in order to make his decisions for qualifying in November?
     
  2. Bethlehem

    Bethlehem New Member

    May 18, 2002
    Line-Up

    Rongen will have to answer several questions:

    Do I risk injuring some of my starters because tired players are more prone to injury?

    Do I need to get one last look at several players who have had limited playing time?

    Do I try and give Brazil a different look?

    His line-up will answer all of these questions.
     
  3. maverick

    maverick New Member

    Mar 7, 1999
    San Diego, CA
    GO U.S. !

    Any idea when kickoff is? Any live internet coverage?

    (I expect not.)

    I do expect, however, for Rongen to go with largely the same lineup he used in the games that mattered (i.e., everything other than Ukraine, which results was the closest thing we've had in this tournament to a foregone conclusion), with Magee in for Barclay. I'd be surprised if he went a different route.

    I sense he's a little like Clive Charles, circa Sydney, in that respect: finds his horses, and rides 'em all the way to the finish line -- or the cliff, whatever comes first.
     
  4. jeffmefun

    jeffmefun Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Quakeland, CA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    DHeck - Why aren't Simek and Whitbred included in the subs lists? Just curious what role these phantom players are even filling over there...
     
  5. GoDC

    GoDC Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    Hamilton, VA
    Re: Re: U-20s vs Brazil [R]

    Somebody correct me if I am wrong but I don't think they are really there. They were not in the USSF press release and were only of the tournament site. I think they would have played some if they were truly with the team.
     
  6. type_32

    type_32 New Member

    Apr 23, 2002
    Re: Re: U-20s vs Brazil [R]

    I don't know about Whitbread, but Simek said Arsenal would not release him as he had an injury.
     
  7. dheck

    dheck Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Chapel Hill, NC, USA
    Re: Re: U-20s vs Brazil [R]

    Simek is definitely not there, as others have posted.

    I seriously doubt Whitbread is there either, but don't know that for certain. I believe Rongen invited them and probably submitted their names on preliminary rosters that were posted and linked here. Nothing I have seen since the tournament started indicates that Whitbread is there. He started on the 24th for Liverpool's U-19s, and in fact, he could be playing with Liverpool's reserves right now against Bradford City reserves.
     
  8. stinky

    stinky New Member

    May 14, 2000
    Long Beach, NY
    isn't the game half over by now...i thought it was starting 3:30 EST?

    anyone have an update?
     
  9. gnk

    gnk Member

    Nov 1, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    May even be over by now, since they're playing 40 min. halves. Nothing yet on the tournament web site or on ussoccer.com
     
  10. gnk

    gnk Member

    Nov 1, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. The Wanderer

    The Wanderer New Member

    Sep 3, 1999
    That's Catalan isn't it? It sure isn't Castellano(standard Spanish).
     
  12. The Wanderer

    The Wanderer New Member

    Sep 3, 1999
    The game should be over now. It was starting at 9:30 Spanish time if I read the military time correctly.
     
  13. LeperKhan

    LeperKhan New Member

    Aug 10, 2000
    St. Paul, MN
    1-0 to Brazil. Preliminary article up on USSoccer:

    http://www.ussoccer.com/news/fullstory.sps?iNewsId=21187&itype=113&icategoryid=63

    USA Lineup:
    1-Steve Cronin; 4-Chefik Simo, 5-Ryan Cochrane (2-Jordan Stone, 41), 14-Chad Marshall, 8-C.J. Klaas; 3-Justin Mapp (17-Raul Palomares-76), 11-Ricardo Clark, 10-Ned Grabavoy (16-Knox Cameron, 73), 15-David Johnson (19-Mike Ambersley, 41); 20-Mike Magee, 7-Ed Johnson.
     
  14. GersMan

    GersMan Member

    May 11, 2000
    Indianapolis
    I just had a premonition that game should be over by now.
     
  15. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    Re: GO U.S. !

    If fourth place in the Olympics (Charles) and the finals of a competitive tournament in his first outing (Rongen) are cliffs, going over them doesn't sound all that bad.
     
  16. fox point fury

    May 19, 2001
    Providence
  17. nutmeg7

    nutmeg7 New Member

    Aug 28, 2002
    East Coast
    And our leading goal scorer sat for two games!
     
  18. The Wanderer

    The Wanderer New Member

    Sep 3, 1999
    Did you really expect him to play four or five games in a row?

    A damn good run for the boys losing out to only the best team in the world.
     
  19. GersMan

    GersMan Member

    May 11, 2000
    Indianapolis
    Shades of a segment of posters supporting an L. Donovan circa 1999-2001 (the Olympics come to mind especially).

    Don't worry, the world is not out to get the boy. He probably got himself a contract with his four-bagger.
     
  20. Preston North End

    Feb 17, 2000
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Magee also missed a lot of time with the U20's in is pursuit of a club in Europe. I think this is why he wasn't in Houston.

    From what I've read, he is the leading scorer for the U20's this year, though Barclay may challenge him. It be nice if US Soccer were to update their website with info like this.

    If he can hook up again with Chicago Fire for training, or better yet sign a MLS contract and train with another club, he should be fine come November. He may not start in Charleston, but he will be in the squad.

    If the situation is the same as it was for Donovan with Charles and it turns out the same, I'll be happy. Well could have Magee, Donovan, Wolff, and say Twellman as forwards (just to name a few) in 2006. If Magee scores two goals at his first World Cup, I'll be happy.
     
  21. The Wanderer

    The Wanderer New Member

    Sep 3, 1999
    Magee will get on with a Euro club as soon as he turns 18 in a few days. Which one we don't know.
     
  22. scrnut

    scrnut New Member

    Apr 30, 2002
    According to the US Soccer website it sounds like it was a very even game that could have gone either way. Great showing by our boys!
     
  23. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Donovan & the Olympics

    Side note ... but in hindsight, those posters certainly seem to have been correct. Donovan was the best forward of the Olympic group in 1999, when he was winning the Golden Ball at a major international youth tournament, and he has been the best forward of that Olympic group in 2002, as he demonstrated with his World Cup appearances. It would be a real stretch in logic to somehow argue that Donovan was also not the best forward in the middle of that time period, during the 2000 Olympics.

    I won't stretch that far; I think the proof has been delivered: Mr. Charles was in error.
     
  24. Preston North End

    Feb 17, 2000
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Magee is currently registered with U.S. Soccer as a player with Chicago Sockers (USYS). To transfer to a club in UEFA, Magee must meet the following requirements, as a player not yet 18...

    From FIFA...

    1. International transfer of players under the age of 18 shall only be permitted under the following conditions:

    a) as a general rule, when the family of the player moves to the country in which the new club is located for reasons that are not linked to football.

    b) withing the territory fo the EU/EEA and in the case of players between the minimum working age in the new training club's country and the age of 18, suitable arrangements are guaranteed for their sports training and academic education by the new training club. For this purpose a code of conduct will be established and enforced by the football authorities.

    2. The same principles apply to the first registration of players under 18 who have a nationality other than that of the country in which they first request to be registered.

    Comments...

    His family probably isn't moving to Europe, so 1a blows it for him and he isn't currently registered with a club in the EU/EEA (European Economic Area), thus 1b doesn't help.

    As far as #2 is concerned, he is already registered with Chicago Sockers, thus a move to a European club will not be his first registration.

    These are the reasons why he hasn't been able to sign with a club in Europe to date. This is what he mentioned as not understanding in the article he wrote on the U.S. Soccer website regarding his recent "trials" in Europe.

    You also mentioned that he turns 18 in a few days (9/2 to be exact). This would alleviate the problems above, except for one HUGE problem. The transfer window closes on 8/31, with no transfers allowed in or out of UEFA between 9/1 and 12/31/2002. (This sounds like a problem for the WTO).

    BTW, once he signs a contract with a club in Europe, say Ajax, I think they might have to pay a "training compestation fee" to Chicago Sockers. This I'm not too sure about, though mainly about the amount and some of the regulations.
     
  25. Cavalier

    Cavalier Member

    Sep 9, 1999
    PNE,

    You're right about the transfer window. I have been reading that this is a big contention, particularly in England right now. I would imagine this also applies to reserve squads since players can be called up to the first team from the reserves at any time.

    However, I am not sure it would preclude a team from signing a player such as Magee and bringing him in for training right now. He just simply would not be able to play until the official transfer window in December where he would officially become part of the team.

    Now, there probably aren't too many teams that want to pay a player for 4 months when they know right upfront he can't play at all during that time, but maybe somebody will since his salary is likely to be pretty small.

    I really don't know too much about him, but my guess is that he will be in limbo until December where his performance at the qualifiers will provide the additional convincing a European team needs to offer him a contract once the window opens up.

    I don't see him coming to MLS in the immediate future as:
    1) It is too late in the season to have any chance to break into a team and get any time
    2) he would be a fool to sign up with MLS if he thinks he has a chance in Europe right now considering how other MLS players wanting to move have faired
    3) should he fail in the above, he easily comes back to MLS for next season, nothing lost.
     

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