Tyler Adams - the best non-Christian Pulisic prospect in the USMNT pipeline

Don't know if you are right about Adams developing the technical skills in MLS but find it to be an interesting argument. That is kind of like saying that nobody can claim an excellent player will come from Hershey PA until a player makes it in Europe and plays in the Champions league....Now it is ok to claim that a potentially world class player may be developed in Hershey but anyone making that claim about Pulisic would have been wrong.

 

Another possibility is that we are not entering into a "golden generation" but finally hitting that inflection point in the development curve where we begin seeing highly talented players developed in the US at an increasingly rapid rate. One can always hope,

 

Sounds good to me.

 

He's not playing and the U20 WC is in May, so that's probably not going to happen.

 

Very possible. We may even need to step up our expectations because there are now so many good up and comers. Before most of these kids would just need to grow more and get stronger. While some would still wash out there are now so many they can't all wash out. So some very good players may never get a minute of National Team minutes that in the past would have been automatic. Depth could become fantastic. This last game against Panama where most of us are happy with a point because of injuries could become an easy win because players 4-8 at each position will be so much better than they are now.

 

"Technical ability" is a way of saying "skill" in seven syllables instead of just one, thereby allowing a BigSoccer poster to take himself more seriously.

 

Another thing to consider is that while there will still be "once in a decade" or "once in a lifetime" players, as more people play the game seriously, there will be fewer "golden" generations. A golden (or dud) generation is more likely when the population is small (more talent variance from year to year) as the numbers increase, the average talent for that year becomes closer to the overall historical average talent (this does not include growth due to developmental improvements/advances). As you say, this is especially important in creating quality depth. The few truly special players that come along every decade or generation will then have a supporting cast. (of course they will come along more frequently too because it really isn't every decade or every generation but decade per unit of population playing the game....which is increasing)

 

IMO, it's not the ability to develop skill that the domestic system is lacking but rather it's the nuances of tactics and vision that MLS lacks. I'd argue that we are and have been quite good at developing U17 players for decades (more athletes formerly and now more skilled players). It's the next step (ages 17-20) where we are still several steps behind and it's not clear to me that the trade off between minor league minutes is worth the lack of the most sophisticated, highly competitive daily training.

For example, one dimensional players can excel in MLS but if/when they transfer overseas, it's clear which areas still need to be developed (e.g., Miazga).

For this reason, I prefer our attacking players to go over asap (as their careers are shorter generally) and feel less strongly about defenders and goalies. YMMV.

 

I guess I was wrong. He's not playing, unattached but still call into the U20 camp in England.

 

Cameron moved to CB relatively late in his career. He was a midfielder almost his entire youth and in his early pro years.

 

Am I following this logic correctly?

1) If player who played in MLS turns out good, claim he was already good before MLS and as such MLS had nothing to do with his development.

2) No matter what it means for the players development, good or bad, have him leave MLS as soon as humanly possible.

Both of these just seemed thinly veiled attempts to bash MLS and for gods sake it is getting old.

The fact that people seem to care more about taking a crap on MLS than actually hoping a player finds the best situation possible for his development really shows the INCREDIBLE bias people have.

One would think a fan would want a player to find a situation where he best develops, which given the enormous variables involved is impossible to guess.

Anybody who combines the ignorance and arrogance to assume they can make a blanket statement for all players is cringe worthy IMO.

 

Andy,

Respectfully, it gets tiresome for me (and likely you as well) when we talk past each other. As I've mentioned before, I attend and watch MLS a decent amount.

Despite what you think is a thinly-veiled attack, there's no intent to bash MLS - it's a good league (~20th in the world) which is quite impressive for how long it's been around. However, there are leagues that are significantly better and there are a multitude of programs that are better at developing skilled players from ages 17-22 than any in MLS. IMO, this aspect is behind the actual product on the field and that's intentional on the part of MLS owners. I'd feel quite different if MLS was focused on youth development and being a selling league but that's antithetical to their stated goals.

Perhaps it's just best to disagree but I'd be interested in your perspective on these questions:

1. Do you think that MLS is significantly different from the 20th best league in the world?

2. Do you disagree that MLS still has a ways to go in developing talented youth? How does that square with their desire to bring in high-profile DPs?

3. Why is it wrong to want our most talented to play at the highest level possible? There will still be plenty of players for MLS, I'm sure.

4. What situations are best for potential USMNT players so that they stay in MLS? With all due respect to arguably our greatest field player, the LD level isn't high enough for us to contend for a World Cup. IMO, we need multiple players who star for UCL semi-final teams to be a contender and MLS isn't the best path to get USMNT players to that level. YMMV.

 

The main fault in wanting our best players to go to Europe as soon as possible is ignoring the fact that the vast majority of our players grow up in the US, are trained in the US and can't just one day decide to leave for Europe.
Most have to be 18 yrs old because they don't have European passports. Pulisic did but Perez, Wright, Taitague, McKennie,Carlton et al. don't. Yes we are not as good as other top countries at developing players because of our developing professional environment. The mere fact our players don't grow up in other countries highlights the main reason why your argument has a huge fallacy attached to it. The main reason Germany, Brazil, France, and Spain develop good footballers is because they grow up from Birth in Germany, Brazil, France, and Spain. Age 18 is way too late to all of a sudden make great players in any significant numbers. We have to improve our own systems and fix its gaps in development. Not belittle it and beg for everyone to leave at 18.

 

SUDano,

Why is acknowledging that there are stronger alternatives that those available locally belittling?

By that logic, one should never leave the local community / state college to attend the Ivy League, etc. Perhaps you agree with that as well, which is well within your right but I couldn't disagree more.

I do agree that there are several legitimate reasons for staying domestic and certainly the inability to get a passport before 18 is a large one. I also disagree that 18 is too late to develop tactically.

Finally, if we want to improve our system, we need to have it focus primarily on developing youth players (e.g., South American leagues) rather than trying to compete with the top leagues (Big 4). That is antithetical to what MLS wants to do and i think it significantly impacts our ability to develop talented youth from 17-20. YMMV.

 

fwiw, I think this is a good discussion. While it's not exactly new, and I know there are other resources on this topic, as someone who isn't really up on the current state of player dev for US players, I do appreciate the different points of view from @AndyMead, @DHC1 and @SUDano

 

Thanks, Bajoro.

I could do without the accusations of ignorance and arrogance but it's the internet!

 

I don't think its that belittling I think its ignorant of what the true end game of becoming a Germany should be.
Telling our players to leave when they are 18 ignores almost every issue to get there. It does almost nothing in getting to that level. I do agree with you that there are some obvious talents that should go to Europe because they're really good. Some should stay. That's beside the point. Trying to get 20 players to Europe as soon as they can does almost nothing to improve the overall talent to the level to become what you say should be the goal.

 

Here is MLS dot com's review of Bulls 4-1 shellacking last nite:
http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2017-04-01-houston-dynamo-vs-new-york-red-bulls/recap

DEFENSIVE DISASTER: This was not the defensive outing the Red Bulls had in mind. Not only did New York concede an equalizer a minute after taking the lead in the first half, but the defense as a whole just was not up to par. This was especially the case after Damien Perrinelle replaced a hurt Aurelien Collin in the 39th minute, forcing Luis Robles to make a number of big saves to keep the Red Bulls from falling further behind.
Houston-------------NY Red Bulls
295 Total Passes 479
60 % Passing Accuracy 77 %
38.1 % Possession 61.9 %

NY had twice as many passes, almost, with better accuracy and held the ball til they couldn't hold it no mo and then took a dump 4-1.

Sounds like a midfield problem. Would have to rewatch as only saw 30 min or so. Anybody else see how Tyler Adams did? Maybe we see Sean Davis next week. Having said that, I think Marsch has to rethink some other staples on that team. Lade is good b.t.w.

 

I have answered every one of these questions numerous times and you just ignore the points every single time and continued your every post diatribe creating various levels of defecation on MLS, which I guess must make you feel some what superior but I don't get it. It just smacks of someone who is being a troll imo.

The fact that you can't make simplest of acknowledgements that you can not in any good conscience have any idea where any one player would best develop means that this is completely a waste of time to discuss.

You will continue to make statements claiming that every player should leave MLS as soon as possible and I will continue to point out that no sane person can make a blanket one size fits all statement for all players.

Probably best to ignore each other I guess.

 

While I very much enjoy hearing different views, I too find it very annoying when some believes they have the one overall solution to player development.

I personally think we have enough history to know that staying MLS is not the best nor is going to Europe the best, nor is going to Mexico the best.

I don't think it is logical to assume there is one right answer for this very complex problem. I prefer having many different paths for our players to take and hopefully enough of them improve to help the national team, no matter where they pull a pay check from.

 

This is well said.

Look at Emerson Hyndman as a perfect example. There are dozens of betters leagues and probably over a hundred better teams he could have played at but he found the situation that was correct for his situation right now.

Emmy needed playing time and needed to gain confidence in his ability as a pro and start producing, all of which have come in spades during this wonderful loan.

One does not need to go to top leagues and or top teams to develop. Each player will hopefully find their own path. Some take wrong turns and make poor decisions along the way. Because of the massive amount of variables involved it really is unavoidable. But this continues to re-enforce the need for as many paths available as possible as you said.

 

From what I saw, Houston had a lot of luck bypassing the midfield and getting right into a NYRB defense with a lot of question marks right now. Adams was not great, but he was better than Felipe. He still finds himself in no-man's land too often, both on defense and as a potential outlet to receive the ball. Not abnormal for a young central midfielder, but an issue you hope gets better with time.

 

The midfield wasn't great. The back line was poor, both with and without the ball. (The back four are very clearly NYRB's Achilles heel this season.) And Sacha isn't setting the world on fire and he frankly needs to.

 

What do you think this is, a thread about Tyler Adams?????

noob

 

From those stats, you got a midfield problem? That write-up sounds like a defender problem. If you have nearly 62% possession, with over 60% more completed passes while completing those passes at a rate that is 17 percentage points higher than your opponent, the most logical conclusion is that your midfield wiped the floor with the opponents midfield. Most possession is held in midfield, so it's a fair bet that those numbers are reflective of the state of the midfield battle. So if your keeper ends up having to save your bacon multiple times with stats like that, and your team STILL loses 4-1, it tells me that your defense was putrid. And watching parts of that game, it was. Add to that, that the Red Bulls don't seem to be taking their chances on the other end well, and you have what you have.