Two Q's from last nights US/NIGERIA game

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Stan, Sep 26, 2003.

  1. Stan

    Stan New Member

    Aug 23, 2002
    There were two calls last night that I was not sure I understood.

    First, about half way through the second half, I thought I heard the ref blow a whistle for a foul (I was in the upper level above the north side goal, so I was a good ways from the whistle), and then when the players did not stop, signaled for advantage. I could not tell for certain whether the whistle was the ref's or not, but it looked as if the players decided not to stop and the referee decided to just let them go ahead.

    The second was the retake to the late US PK. The Nigerian keeper encroached about 3 yards on the first take, but the US scored. The referee then ordered a retake. The Keeper encroached as much again, but the goal was allowed to stand.

    Both ARs used a technique I have not seen...they would raise the flag in their right hand to signal ball out of touch, and then signal direction, sometimes shifting the flag to the other hand if the direction was left. It looked a bit awkward to my eyes, especially when compared to the crew at the earlier N. Korea/Sweden game, who did it the way I have been taught, immediately signaling direction.
  2. AvidSinger

    AvidSinger New Member

    Sep 6, 2002
    Not having seen the game, this is the only one I can comment on.

    It is not at all uncommon for linesmen to do this. Most linesmen carry the flag in their right hand, so it's normal for them to raise the flag with their right hand -- especially when they are judging a bang-bang play and they want to make a clear, quick signal.
  3. love to play

    love to play New Member

    Jul 16, 2001
    I was confused as well

    I saw the game. I was confused on the Foudy PK as well. There was mention by the comentators that Foudy stutter stepped but that should not have been an issue. The only other thing that I can think of is that maybe one of the U.S. players encroached from the top of the 18. Anyway, it was a bit puzzling.
  4. rcleopard

    rcleopard New Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    I think a US player encroached.

    That said, I was not thrilled with the officiating last night. It really seems like the US gets away with murder. The elbow to the face was a prime example.. as were a number of push offs and illegal charges.

    I want the US to win, but not at the cost of the laws.

  5. jc508

    jc508 New Member

    Jan 3, 2000
    Columbus, Ohio area
    I have to agree with Jarrod.

    I thought the elbow to the face should have been at least a yellow card, if not a red card.

    It reminded me of Tab Ramos v. Leonardo of Brazil when Leonardo had his shirt pulled by Ramos, and Leonardo swung his elbow back striking Ramos in the face, fracturing his jaw ans causing a concussion.

    It looked like the Nigerian grabbed Wambaugh (?) right shoulder before the US player swung back with the elbow catching the Nigerian above the eye.

    To add to the curious officiating, I had to wonder why the AR insisted on calling the Offside and held her flag after the ball went back upfield in a counter attack for 10-15 seconds after the offside. When the ball finally went into touch, the players pointed to the AR who was still holding the offside signal, and the Ref call the Offside. Made the ref team look bad.
  6. Bleacherbutt

    Bleacherbutt New Member

    May 1, 2001
    Rochester, NY
    Abby had her arms up and in to win that ball. The Nigerian was late and was headhunting. Life Lesson to the Nigerian Defender: if you are late for the ball don't try to plow through Abby, work on recovering and regaining position. Thank God, Abby had that elbow up or there would have been another foul like the one Mia took. The Mia on was a headhunt, no two ways about it.

    I thought the referee did a good job in a difficult circumstance. She should have gone have pulled the yellow for persistent infringement or some of the hard illegal challenges. Another Life Lesson for the entire Nigerian Team: Thuggery is not a good thing in your own penalty box.

    Third life lesson for Nigeria: if you hold your run just a split second longer you won't be offside which disallowed both goals.

    On Foudy's PK, it had to have been a U.S. encroachment into the box.
  7. tmeuz

    tmeuz New Member

    May 13, 2003
    Denver, CO
    Most refs would not have pointed to the spot in the first situation where Parlow was sandwhiched in the box- I was a bit surprised. I'm thinking maybe the ref wanted to set the tone early based on the Nigerians reputation for slowing a game down with fouls. If there's one strategy I hate more than bunkering to kill a good offense, it's excessive fouling and the Nigerians have been absolutely atrocious in previous matches. Maybe the US had the benefit of a few calls (although the final stats on fouls were not nearly as one-sided as previous encounters), but to me this seemed more to be a case of the Nigerians' history finally catching up with them- good riddance. Let them whine.

    It was also nice to see the US insert a physical lineup that didn't back down.
  8. rcleopard

    rcleopard New Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    As much as I hate replay, I watched the elbow on slow a few times.. then at normal speed a few times.

    Abby swung her elbow back. We teach and expect kids to keep their elbows down. We tell them not to swing back when you jump. Headthrusting aside (which I did not see.. I saw a near 50/50) , Abby SWUNG her arms back.

    This WWC is a joke. It seems like the Officials are doing everything to get the US through. The first game against sweeden was the same.

    And as for the noticing the AR.. what kind of Fifa ref doesn't check their ARs every few seconds? Where was the mirroring? How could this ref be a fifa ref and not know to look at the flag. She had completely ignored the diagonal and was so turned around five or six times through the game.

    Then in the stoppage time, after the Nigerian player was injured and carried off the field on a gurney, she allowed two more minutes! It's a 5-0 game, ref, people are killing each other, and you're going to make them play to term?! Nigeria's out of the WWC now! They have next to no chance of getting back in!

    It seemed like the ref was more "into" Mia Hamm getting her hattrick than the safety of the players, because continuing a 5-0 game in stoppage after a player has been carted off the field in a brace bwecause of a swung elbow is stupid.

    There's no matter of pace.. or control.. or anything. This was a horribly officiated game.

  9. ChickRef

    ChickRef New Member

    May 28, 2003
    Did anyone else notice the late, hard tackles on Lilly and Sobrero in front of the benches in the second half? These were examples of cheap, intimidating play, and they weren't even called, let alone cautioned for. Easy yellows--in front of the benches, ball is gone.

    I gave the ref some props for having the guts to call that PK, but she soon lost any credibility she might have had. That extra time situation was laughable, and all the Nigerian players staying down for so long (not necessarily the stitches one) made them look like wusses.

    Glad to see that the US didn't take the same beating they did in 99--it's nice to see them not backing down, at least.
  10. rcleopard

    rcleopard New Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    It was good to see them not backing down, but at what cost? That game was a joke. I'm a US FAN and I thought the Nigerians got the raw end of the deal.

    I didn't even mention the whole "offside" incident.

    It was all a joke.. a sick, sad refereeing joke that proves Fifa will give badges to anyone. The US WNT deserves their wins, but the referees shouldn't help.

    I'm not sexist. I just think these games need to be called by people with more experience and a better knowledge of officiating. The mistakes I saw out there were way too obvious, crucial, and shocking for something that calls itself a World Cup. If this trend continues.. someone is going to get killed out on the pitch.

    Five minutes of stoppage in a 5-0 game with about 46 fouls total and a player bleeding from the eye on a back board. Sickening.

    I hope this is their last FIFA assignment ever.

  11. Crowdie

    Crowdie New Member

    Jan 23, 2003
    Auckland, New Zealand
    I find that both techniques work well in different situations. If the ball has moved away from the players and goes out then an immediate direction signal is ideal. I use the flag straight up and then direction signal if I believe the CR's view may be obstructed or if the ball is running up the touchline with players in pursuit. The flag going straight up is very easy for the CR to see (particularly if the CR's view of the ball is blocked by players).

    Have a go at using both techniques. If they work for you keep them. If not, then just use the immediate direction technique.


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