Well, I'm not going to try too hard to guess their motives (for all I know they really are pacifists and just joined the army because they needed a paycheck), but the timing certainly could have been better on their part. So in short, I agree, they shouldn't have joined the army if the idea of doing what you (occasionally) are called upon to do while in the army disgusts them.
In shorter, they aren't honorable, should be discharged and maybe spend some time in jail for signing false statements.
Most people know what they're getting themselves into, and this is pretty silly to all of a sudden announce that you're a pacifists, but as long as the armed forces continues to market themselves in commercials and print as a nice way to gain confidence, a paycheck, college tuition, meet friends, "be part of a team", etc, etc...and completely ignore the other part of it (chanting about killing, learning to kill, actually killing, risking being killed, etc, etc) then these types of cases will continue.
Anyone who signs up with the military and does not consider the fact tht they might have to kill someday is fvcked in the head. I have no problem with these two being allowed to stop fighting the war, but there is a price to pay. It is called a dishonorable discharge. The fact that they actually want an honorable discharge is ridiculous.
What propoganda? Even if they are susceptible, what moron does not understand that the military fights wars? What moron does not understand that people fighting in wars are expected to kill? I can definitely see how someone might think they can handle it and then realize that they cannot. That would suck but you know what, someotimes you have to do ********** that you don't want to do. Especially when you sign up for it. It would be different if they had been drafted and declared their CO status before being shipped off to war. The fact that they want "honorable" discharges is what really irks me. There is no honor in quitting
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I don't know what, exactly, the difference is between an honorable and a dishonorable discharge, but I'm sure someone could explain it to me. However, if an honorable discharge means I get to keep the benefits of military service after the discharge goes through, then I think I might sign up, wait until my unit is deployed to Iraq, and then claim CO status in looking for an honorable discharge. Hell of a way to look out for my future, if I do say so myself. Brilliantly evil...
Do you really think that sets a good precedent? Next thing you know every soldier out there that wants to come home will try the same thing. Dishonorable discharge is the only way to go.
Give me an effing break! now you are going to blame the Army? You have got to be kidding me. Also, to equate the Army's recruitment methods and adverts with propoganda is absolutely preposterous. I ask again, what moron does not understand that Army's fight wars and if they join the Army, they might actually be asked to kill? Why they hell do they teach you how to use a weapon?
You asked "what propoganda?" and I showed you. Where did I blame the Army? I just pointed out that they don't exactly go out of their way to mention you might have to kill people on their website. Meriam and Webster disagree with you. What moron doesn't know the meaning of the word propaganda? They don't seem to mention that on their recruitment website.
Recruitment and advertising are not propaganda Since you were equating their advertisements and recuiting as propaganda, I was assuming that you blame the Army for "misleading". You never did say that, so I apologize OK if you want to get into semantics, you can definitely call advertisements propaganda. I prefer to call them advertisements as propaganda usually carries a bad connotation I know exactly what it means, I just don't agree with your use of it here. It's a given. Do they really need to? Who the fvck doesn't know that the Army is in the business of defense? And who doesn't understand that sometimes in order to defend, you actually have to fight? These medics knew what they were getting into. Now they want out. Fine, let them go. But if they are discharged honorably and collect one more tax dollar in compensation, there is something wrong with that. I remember ads where the Army shows guys getting up in the AM and running tank drills. BTW, what's that big cylindrical thing on the tank? By golly, it's a gun!
With ads like the ones the US Army shows you are inevitably going to get morons who think they can sign up and do cool things and completely forget about the killing part. I wouldn't call it misleading because frankly I agree that it's a given, but I, and I'll guess you are too, am more intelligent than the average viewer the ads target. I agree they shouldn't collect benefits for this kind of discharge. Dishonorable discharge would be right. And then there's the one where the family is on vacation, crossing a river and the girls backpack falls in and the brother retrieves it... just right for special forces. Or the girl who fixes her family's antenna/satellite dish/whatever - she's perfect for the army too. Recruitment is propaganda, not everyone attaches a negative connotation to propaganda. The allies used propaganda during WWII - much of it was probably honest and true (the allies are pushing German forces back, we will not do things to prisoners that your Emperor claims), some of it probably involved lies and exaggeration - sounds like ads to me.
And I wonder what Special forces do. Let's say, for arguments sake, that there is no mention of killing or war during the entire recruitment process in the Army. When I interview for a job (and the Army is a job) I ask questioins about my job description, compensation, potential for promotion...etc. If someone doesn't ask those questions they have only themselves to blame whether or not they are informed of the fact that they might have to fight in a war some day. If they do ask those questions and the issue is skirted, then that seems pretty seedy.
Noone is saying that the people here are exceptionally bright, gifted or well-informed. All I'm saying is the US military goes through great pains to promote itself, and it hardly shows anything whatsoever about war or killing. Instead, it concentrates on how proud your family will be, the money you'll make, the straight A's you'll get in college that's paid for by the Army, etc, etc...
Not at all. I am simply making a statement about accountability. Just because someone is stupid does not mean they should receive more leniant treatment when their stupidity puts them in a bind. I'm not saying that you disagree on that point either. My reply was more directed towards anyone who thinks that the Army should shoulder any responsibilty for this.
The army should not give such soldiers an honorable discharge, we agree on that. But I think its advertising is potentially irresponsible and it should reconsider how it promotes itself.