I disagree Sure it is hard to find a market as large as philly to expand into. In fact it is imposible, but do not count Rochester as a tiny TV market. Rochester and Buffalo are both around 1.2 million people and Syracuse is some 800k. add in part of canada and western New York in general and the TV market for rochester is actually quite signifigant. Even with just Syr, Buf, and Roc you have 3.2 million viewers wich is by no means small potatoes. OKC is small potatoes but every viewer counts and there is no way that AEG dumps money into 2 new expansion teams. So MLS will take small market teams as long as they have stadiums and owners.
Sam Houston lied to Mexico and to the Mexicans residing in Tejas and the neighboring southern state that he expropriated: "Nah, we don't want to be part of the US; we'll be our own Republic." Maybe America in Houston would be a way of compensating for the lies. (FYI: if Zacatecas or the Yucatan or even California, all of which had even stronger "rumblings" of discontent, then Santa Ana would have gone THERE first and history would have been vastly different.) The Texas Rangers have mistreated Mexicans since the founding of the organization, lynching literally hundreds of Mexicans during the late 19th/early 20th centuries. To this day the "Rinches" have a bad reputation amongst Latinos in Texas. Has this affected the Texas Rangers' attendance in Arlington? Just wondering... EDIT: California's rumblings of discontent w/ the federal government was less than Texas. My bad...
1) The odds of AEG establishing two more teams for themselves I would estimate at somewhere between slim and "are you out of your effing mind" 2) The first phase of the Rhinos stadium, IIRC, is only 14,000. Two planned expansions can take it to 30,000. 3) Cleveland will have a team by 2005. The reason is very simple: Bart Wolstein is willing to pay up front, build a stadium without public participation if he has to and pay his share of MLS LLP losses into the next century. 4) Rochester's case is interesting on a number of fronts. Possibly the biggest is that, esentially, they're being promoted. The GM, Coach and ownership group will stay the same. (Unless Economides gets a better offer) That aside, it appears that Rochester was approached by MLS last month, not the other way around. My guess, FWIW, is that they are loath to have an11 team league, and if Vergera is pushing hard for 2004, then they need another team. Rochester is closer to being ready than anyone else, any of which would need more than a couple months to ramp up: - They've broken ground on a building - They have an identity, a marketing staff, management and players already OKC, Cleveland, no one else can offer them this. So if they want 12 teams in 2004 rather than 11, Rochester is their only choice.
13,500 permanent seats and space for 4,000 non-permanent seats the first year for a 17,500K total before the planed expansions What a nice little regonal rivalry this would give Columbus with both Rochester and Cleveland. Hell Columbus still owes Rochester for the '99 USOC.
I DON'T LIKE THIS HUSH,HUSH RUSH,RUSH THING speaking from experience when one rushing things they never work out
There's been no rushing. We've been debating these scenarios for the better part of a year. Just replace Cleveland with OKC for the first part of 2003. The interest with Chivas and CA go back a few months as well. Everyone's expecting some sort of large-scale announcement at MLS Cup. I expect to hear "We're really close to awarding two expansion franchises, but we're not ready to announce them yet." But who really knows? Not me, that's for sure. Sachin
One more thought on Cleveland. Bill, I know you'll correct me if I'm wrong. It seems to me that Wolstein is willing to build a stadium if he can get it in his preferred location. However, if the "city fathers" force him to build in downtown, he'll need more outside investment to cover the costs. This may be his holdup and explain the comments about a month or so ago saying he'll need a "sugar daddy." Sachin
First of all, almost no business negotiations take place in the open and in public. Secondly, maybe it's not so much "rush rush" as it is striking while the iron is hot. The opportunities MLS views as being there today may not exist tomorrow if you put them off or drag your feet.
I agree, Vergara and Rhinos are not going anywhere, if Vergara really wants Chivas in the US, he can wait another year.
Re: off on my own tangent... Old Man suggests a single table, but I would say MLS is more likely to go back to the 3 divison format of a few years ago. EAST: New England, MetroStars, DC United, Columbus. CENTRAL: Chicago, Kansas City, Dallas, Houston WEST: San Jose, Colorado, Los Angeles San Diego. If nothing else, the playoffs would be fairer with the top 8 going in no matter what their division. Tom
I think you're essentially correct. Downtown Cleveland wasn't even on the radar for this project six months ago. But Cleveland wants it there, has a chunk of land they can basically give him adjacent to Gund Arena parking and they're really working hard on getting it there. You occasionally will hear something about "St Ignatious Football games" as another possible tenent, which is Cleveland talking. Your average 2000 student RC High School can get by nicely without a $100 million stadium. But the city is trying to come up with reasons why the public till should offer Wolstein concessions. You're right, it's not his preferred spot - but he's willing to be bribed. And if I had to bet, I'd say they'll be able to sweeten the pot enough. Which actually will be nice - an MLS stadium (which Wolsteins people have preliminary plans on and which they are bragging will be the nicest "by far" in the US) downtown with great restaurants and bars literally steps away. Accessible by RTA trains. A rather unique experience for the USA soccer fan.
Already a reality for most sports fans in Denver. Let's hope the Rapids do it right and put the stadium with all the others in lower downtown Denver.
just out of curiosity, does anyone know off hand what kind of payroll Rochester has? are they over the MLS cap? do they have players that do not have green cards? How will this be worked out with the league if they join?
Hopefully MLS limits expansion to two teams for the next couple of years. The expansion has to go slowly and it has to coincide with more foreign player allotments. The core talent pool of American players won't grow as quickly as the number of teams. So, to keep the quality of soccer increasing, the league will need to allow more foreign players of the same or better talent level as it adds more teams. I cannot believe how awesome the quality of play was this year, and I don't want to see it regress by diluting the talent pool.
Of course he can. But I can't! I'm like a kid on Christmas. I want a new team to add interest. I want a new stadium to go to and new merchandise to buy!
The best suggestion I've heard so far has been Aztlan. Politically loaded, but it fits, since it refers (in Chicano folklore) to the parts of Mexico that were taken over by the US.
I'm not worried about our stadium at all. Kroenke's a smart man and is gonna want some good money being made between Pepsi Center and an SSS. With new skyscrapers going up and the central platte valley building things at an exponential rate, we'll have our stadium downtown...no doubt about it.
I 100% agree with you here. If the cleveland area is like Colorado, where youth soccer leagues/programs are already well established, then I see no reason whatsoever not to put a stadium downtown. In Chicago's case I could understand since the city wasn't willing to give them a bone, but every other current/future MLS city should be focusing on putting SSS's in central urban areas where it's much easier for everyone to get to and where you'll be able to provide a much better, more lively atmosphere.
I think one positive thing here that exists regardless of whether a particular candidate location succeeds immediately with expansion, is that we can see that good devlopments breed more good developments. When one owner/city gets a bid together, two more jump in. Hopefully the locations that don't get selected will continue building their cases in hopes that two years later they'll be the leading candidates, partly because of the buzz created by the bid itself.