I was asking a general question to those who don't think there should be an all-star game in the first place.
Take a look at the Revs schedule over the nest few weeks and you will see why many (if not most) of us wish they would either drop the game all together or move it to after the Cup where it doesn't impact the real schedule. Beauty Contest games may be nice but not when they have a damaging effect of the games that count.
I'm always up for a reasonable wager but I don't think this one is valid. I will always be interested to know anything that happens with in MLS and esp to Rev player so there is almost no way that I won't make myself aware of what happens in the Beauty Contest. The context of my argument is quite different from what you suggest. I'm not necessarily against all start games--only games in the middle of the season. I think all you say is valid---but I also think what is stacked against holding these games in mid season is also valid. I believe that having Rev players involved in an unnecessary match, in the middle of the hot summer, after already playing extra matches in Cup play, in the middle of a very busy schedule is unwise and unnecessary.
Awww.... poor baby. Dude, get over it. And frankly, from what I've seen or heard (yes, Monty, I'm dragging you into this), those who are against it have always been against it, not just this year.
No need to be insulting because I hold an opinion different from yours. I'm neither a "baby' or someone given to making complaints--in fact just the opposit as the others on this Board will attest. I think if you asked any coach in MLS their opinion, if they were being honest. they would echo what I'm opining.
god, give it a rest doc. the revs have a games on 7/22, 7/27, 8/3 (open cup), 8/6 and 8/10. the 7/27, 8/3, 8/6 and 8/10 games are all at home. sure there's some mid week games in there.....but, the last time i checked EVERY mls team is playing on 8/3 and the revs have been luckier than a lot of mls sides to this point with regard to midweek affairs. also, the last time i checked, the revs have 20 players NOT going to columbus (and not playing an mls game that day), all 5 that are going aren't going to play the full 90 they would have had there been a lg game that day (and they would be playing a lg game sans an all-star affair) AND there's probably going to be 5 subs in effect for the match. so, why do you think it's your right to play mother hen? these guys want to go, they want to win, they want to show they deserve to be there and show what their made of. have you heard anything to the contrary? you wanna take up a cause.....go over to the wiz bds. they could use your your 'concern' over there apparently....b/c they have 1 less game than the revs with 4 'away' games between now and 8/13 (incl a trip west) and nobody is whining. plus, their team doesn't happen to be sitting 1 pt back of the league leaders with 3 games in hand....hmmm? 1. i wanna hear your definition of 'beauty contest' 2. i wanna know why your going to pay attention to something that 'should be done away with' 3. i want you to tell me who's going to get injured in this game for the revs. 4. i want you to tell me why it's a bad thing that 6 revs starters (and possibly 3 subs) get the day off on july 30th. 5. i wanna know if you've voiced your opinions on the small rosters/many games/meaningless match issue to mls (b/c their phone number is on the site ya know?) one thing i can't tolerate is anybody (not just you doc) that seems to feel pretty darn strongly in a certain direction and doesn't have the conviction to be part of what you consider to be the 'solution' and not part of the 'problem'. in your case, you don't like this game and show one modicum (sp?) of interest......then your just another good reason why the all star game SHOULD continue next year. ....physician, heal thyself!
btw, just curious.......did you just sneak over....maybe in a moment of weakness and vote for some rev players? come on now, just between you and me
Dude, we have more players playing, and we're not complaining. And we play the Wednesday before and after, too. I'm sorry, but my sympathy runs a little thin when you've known for quite some time what the schedule is going to be and have had time to adjust for it. We didn't complain to the gods about our early season road schedule, we dealt with it. We didn't complain when Vanney and EJ got called in for the US, then EJ got hurt and Ruiz got hurt and then the Gold Cup came and took them again - we dealt with it. Sure, all the coaches would rather not have their players playing so many games. They'd rather play once a week. But like it was said elsewhere, you have more players not playing in the ASG than in it (shouldn't it be a 28 man roster, so 23 players not playing in the ASG?). Oh, and I also have a problem with people who are fans of the league jumping ship just because they didn't like a part of the way the league runs things. I had tons of respect for those who protested the shootout, but did so within the game. Having an issue with the game itself I don't mind. (I don't *agree*, either, but that isn't the issue.) I have a problem with those who abandon the league because something isn't to their taste. Sorry if you don't like that hot sports opinion, but there you have it.
I thought this Board was about open discussion where people can express a reasonable opinion without being subjected to attack. It's obvious that some posters would rather throw "smack" than conduct a lively, but reasonable dialog. I'm out____
geez, this is not an attack doc. gimmie a break. reasonable? reasonable is actually looking at everyone else's schedule in the league to see that NOBODY has it as GOOD as the revs over the next 3+ weeks. 'smack'? smack is illogical, personal and comment without reason when people see my user name appear.....they probably think i'm going to be complaining about management and the way they approach the fans and gameday. i can't help that. that's what i've written about quite frequently. however, i remember a few months ago that you railed on me for only exposing the prob's and giving no solutions. if you've actually read my posts over the past few years.....you would've seen that i've given tons of ideas on things the revs could do/could've done. not only that, i've called and talked to people in the sport/emailed/started petitions/brought people to games......you name it. i looked at the things i liked and didn't like and did what i could to better each. and....no suprise, some of those things are being addressed by the revs this year. not that i'm taking credit for it. but, lots of people made contact with various arms of the organization and mls and after hitting rock bottom, they've decided to veer in a different direction. rightfully so. now, when the tables turn.....you seem to cry foul and run. if you think this game is a beauty contest. if you think there's no place for this thing in the middle of the season. if you think there's a better way to go about this..... simple.......don't 'participate' in the event!!! big soccer bds are only a beginning to an end. it's a place to bounce ideas/opinions off people and gauge where popular opinion sits. honestly, since we're all free to express opinions here......i'm guessing that you (and probably many others) don't like this event and still voted for players from the revs. if that's not the case....i'm more than willing to say i'm sorry. but, if you did....why would you be wasting people's time here by saying that rev players need 'time off' to rest for 'games that matter'? if you want the revs to have time off.....send a slew of mutts to cow-lumbus! that'll show them. if you think nicol doesn't like this game.....then vote for a chivas starting 11...that'll show the mls brass. if you think the players don't care about it.....they'll have no problem hearing their own fanbase sent a bunch of yellow clad bottom dwellers to represent the league. correct?? also, i'm guessing you'll watch the game and there's many like you that will do the same. seems silly to me. because, if you're the mls home office....you can really only gauge interest for the event by votes tallied and tv ratings for the most part. and if you're the office....you would gauge that as 'positive' interest. so, i'm asking that if you (and others) really don't like this event.....then don't watch it.....write and/or call the revs and mls.....maybe start a petition at petitiononline.com or ipetitions.com. suggest alternatives, get this thing stopped, etc.... otherwise, just like i've rightfully earned reputation as a rabblerouser and an opponent of the way the revs management has approached the marketing of this game.......then, i'd have to say (in my mind anyway) you're on your way to earning the reputation of being someone that writes a lot of 'do as i say, not as i do posts' and doesn't have the conviction of your own opinions on various matters to do anything about them. so, if you want to call my statements about being part of the problem and not part of the solution 'smack'.....then i'd gladly take a yellow card for that 'professional foul'.
Geez, I'm gonna regret this... I agree with Doc. I have no problem not watching this match, I don't care about it and yes, I worry that someone might get hurt. Sure, history says that no one has yet. But c'mon guys, one of the arguments for having this match is that it has some meaning and the guys selected want to win. WELL, if that is the case, then doesn't that increase the chance of an injury? I hear the arguments about the value to the players and the league, so I can agree that it is more than a beauty contest. BUT, all I'm asking for is what I hear Doc asking for...have it after the season. Yes, I understand that it is probably a better business decision to have it now instead of in competition with the fall sports, but personally I would prefer it. And yes, I have written and complained. When Marc Connolly wrote about it I sent him an email hoping it might get quoted later. He wrote back saying that he agreed that it would be better if the game weren't mid-season but since MLS was not going to budge then playing a foreign team was a better choice than the East-West matchup. I guess I would have to agree. Will I watch the game? I don't think it would prove anything if I didn't, but I definitely would not be sorry to miss it. I'm certainly not going to plan my day around it or tape it to view later if I'm not home. Will it be an interesting game to watch? I imagine it will, so all things being equal I just may watch it. But I don't see how that makes me a hypocrite.
ill watch just about any match aired on TV. im going to watch this one. im interested, but its far from an important game for me. what is important to me is that the Revs do well this season, and hopefully win some (or all) hardware. if there was the slightest chance that one of our valued players got injured in this game, id rather they not play in it. but its not up to me. maybe they want to do it. i dunno. it could be a good career opportunity for some players. it may be selfish, but i want whats best for the Revolution this season, and i doubt this game will have any positive effect for us. hopefully, it wont have any negative effect on us. but ill watch, and cheer for MLS and the Revs players in the game.
im sure you dont think of it as one, but i can sure see how its being perceived as an attack. as strong as Doc feels about this, id hazard a guess that he did not vote for any of the players for the All-Star game. i know i didnt.
i can definitely appreciate action....if you get a chance, maybe fwed that note. mls direct might be more effective than writing to one of the columnists if you feel strongly feedback@mlsnet.com maybe one makes a call if one thinks it'll fall on deaf ears (212) 450-1200 one the one occassion i chose to contact the office with an opinion....i found they are responsive...or at least willing to listen. let me reemphasize these quick points though...... 1. if the gm's, players, and coaches voted for who they though would be mls' 'best' reps.....then they 'care' about this game and they view it as important for everyone involved. if they care....why shouldn't we? 2. if the players don't say they wish it didn't happen....then they want to be a part of it. 3. if one voted and/or watches....whether one likes it or not, they're helping to make sure that this thing keeps going. i believe chivas pulled in great numbers on tv and that only adds to having this type of format. if one fully realizes that fact....that's fine.....if one doesn't support it, the only way to show that is to NOT participate. 4. players play. i think if one could apply a cost benefit analysis here.....the players would feel that the experience and exposure from playing far far outweighs the low low probability of some kind of injury. 5. again, 20 revs HAVE the day off and somewhere between 2 and 5 are likely making it a short day......this IS, IN FACT, a day 'off' for the organization. 6. my guess is that even if you a non-supporter of this event, if a rev scores, you'll let out a 'YES!' of some kind.....which shows you, in fact, do think it means something. really, apologies for coming off so dogmatic and for posting long emails on this thread. i really have a short fuse for hypocrisy and inaction.....although hypocrisy coupled with some amount of 'action' i can live with. oh, and a logical argument helps too. ....simply writing one's opinions on bigsoccer solely.....doesn't constitute 'action' in any relavant dose...that's all. good luck to the revs on the squad and happy 'day off' to the 80% of the side that's not.
im interested in why you insist that its hypocricy. you seem really sure that people somehow care about this game even though they wont admit it. some people think that this match is pointless, and that it could possibly have a negative effect on our team. you disagree. big deal. your long posts are coming across a bit overbearing.
i've apologized for that (if it's overbearing)...and i mean it. it's simple....if you think it's pointless and/or detremental to the 'real objectives' of the team AND you 'support' it in any way, shape or form (voting/watching/seeing how rev players did)....then it IS hypocritical, no? again, voting numbers and tv ratings are seen as 'positives' to mls brass. voicing your opinion outside these bds to people that can make a diff and/or NOT PARTICIPATING in the event are the only ways to show that you actually believe what you write and are willing to 'back it up'. one may not like the things i write. one may not like the length. but, NOBODY can say.... that i don't have passion for the sport/issues that one can't trust that i mean what i say that i don't try nearly 100% to turn what i say into action if people can't believe what one writes......then why write at all?
no prob, really. it just makes it harder for me to see your side of the argument. i see that wall of text and my defense mechanism kicks in i guess. i dont see it that way, no. just because i will watch and quite possibly enjoy the game does not necessarily mean that i support it (maybe im missing something, or we are interpeting the word 'support' differently). id much rather all of our guys get some rest, stay safe, and get ready for the next league game/open cup. the importance of those games means a lot more to me than a friendly type All-Star game.
i think you're missing my point. to mls exec's watching/voting = support support = reinstatement of format in the future. if you (or anyone else) really don't (doesn't) like the format/timing of the game, i'd urge you to contact your team or mls just to voice your opinion.....b/c right now, if you watch (and/or voted).....their default opinion (based on your actions) is that you currently 'support' this event as structured. .....this makes sense right?
I guess my take is this - you can object to the game without taking your support away from the league. And if someone feels that me saying that them taking their support away from the league is an attack, then so be it. I'll raise again the example I gave - those that fought the shootout AT the games, bravo. That is called being an educated consumer and a supporter. Those who fought the shootout by not coming to games - claiming to support the league at the same time is hypocracy. And if you don't get that not supporting the league by at least participating in the All-Star Game is an attack on the league, then you're not paying attention. Do you realize how much money they spend on that game? Just getting the game on ABC alone is incredibly expensive. Yet people don't watch - hurting television ratings - because they don't get a warm and fuzzy from it. I think that is pathetic. I know a lot of die-hard MLS fans don't like it. It isn't "traditional" or whatever. That is fine. I am NOT upset with the OPINION. I disagree with it and will discuss it, but I don't get hot under the collar about the opinion. It is the abandonment of the game that I have a problem with. It is the same as a US supporter who doesn't support MLS because it isn't "good enough quality" for them. Or someone who is an MLS supporter (assuming they are a US citizen and has an interest in the US soccer in a general sense and no tie to another national team) who doesn't support the USMNT for whatever reason. They are symbiotic, and to support one but not the other is careless at best and stupid at worst. Oh, this isn't a new opinion for me. See http://www.sams-army.com/index.php?Mlist=content_full&Article_id=93. A simple way to look at it is this - the league (and US soccer in general) can't yet afford to lose support over petty issues like this. If you have a beef, do it within the league. Get a letter writing campaign going - argue that the money spent on the ASG is a poor use of the league's money, etc. But don't not watch or not go because of your sensibilities. I'll leave you with this. The year I wrote that piece, MLS contracted by two teams to stay alive. After I wrote that article and a successor piece, WUSA folded. MLS is not a guaranteed commodity even now, even though it makes progress daily. Let's not make it harder for the league when you can express your views in another way and still make your point.
I think it's an interesting game, so I'll check it out. But, if there weren't several Revs involved, I wouldn't arrange my day around it. Let's be honest, Fulham was a fallback. It would have been a lot more fun watching the all-stars, in full midseason shape, push Real Madrid a LOT harder than the Galaxy were able to do the other night. I think the disappointment for me is that although MLS had a decent idea for the game, they couldn't close the deal and settled for a backup plan. It's kind of a no-win plan for the league. If MLS does well, which I expect, doubters have every reason to discount the result. If MLS gets their butts kicked, or looks mediocre or un-sophisticated, those same doubters have even more fuel. As for the Revs, having the 4 stars coming and going has left the team somewhat out of sync, even when they are back. Having 2 games per week over the next few weeks should get them all clicking again. As for fatigue, Nicol has plenty of bench options once everyone is back, so I don't see burn out as too big a problem. And none of the Revs are going to wear themselves out in the all-star game.
The going gets tough and you run and hide. Interesting M.O. You did the same thing on the ASG - not your cup of tea, so you walk away. You are from Mass., aren't you? I thought you guys dealt with tea issues a bit differently up there.... Oh, I see, you're from NH. That explains it. Seriously, active participation is vitally important. Bailing because you don't like a specific issue instead of standing and voicing your opinion in a constructive way is exactly that - not being constructive. And yeah, that bothers me. Your venom towards the ASG - but more, the way you express it - bothers me.
i think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the method of 'protest' when it comes to mls issues drumm'r......well maybe the shootout and the asg aren't the same thing....so maybe not. if somebody decides they hate shootouts....i have zero problem with them either staying or leaving the live game attendance figures, IF they let someone in mls or their team's organization on the way out. otherwise, your absence or disdain for that feature goes 'unrecorded' either way.....so, what's the point? same with the asg. if one hates it and can't be bothered to voice that opinion to a meaningful person in a meaningful way.....then watching/voting for it is throwing support behind it as a 'default'....whether one likes it or not. that IS fact. i think doc needs to realize that. i'm all for him expressing his opinion and respect his opinion.....as long as his opinion translates into a meaningful tally with the people that really matter (and that ain't bigsoccer posters like me). guess i'd like people that don't like this format and/or it's timing to either voice it to someone and 'participate' in the event or just don't 'participate'. .....because it makes their 'opinion' worth zero in the long run.
MLS all star games have been boring, contrived footnotes on other wise interesting seasons. they are like "award shows". except nobody cares really. this one might be different - a pseudo - US team playing fulham is interesing in itself - but its still an exhibition - in the end, meaningless. I'm actually more interested in watching Real Madrid & Chelsea play real mls teams - as it is a better test of where the league is - but less interested in that than actually watching a regualr season game that actually means something. to see anyone wax poetically about how an exhibition game is so important to them is just strange.
I think the lack of participation is a cop-out. I think the only viable form of protest is the former - go to the game(s)/vote, but take the time to send a letter or at least an email that tells the league your opinion. The apathetic will be left with only their apathy. Those that are involved will (if done the right way) have a viable league to enjoy. The question is who outnumbers who.