Well, no. I'd say that the area where UNC-Duke would be in most demand is North Carolina. Obviously. Of course, ESPN lost a lot of viewers because of that black-out. But it's not as though Florida and Massachusetts are packed full of Duke and UNC alums. ACC basketball fans? Sure, but not state-wide.
O.k. Let's extend that 2% of your "very scientific" sampling... Recently a US-Mexico match garnered around 5 million viewers, iirc. (I think it was last February's prime-time game.) 2% of 5 million is 100K. Do you wanna guess what that does to those ESPN numbers bullied about???? Check. And. Mate.
This is amazing. ESPN can only charge based advertisers based on eyeballs. If a show on ESPN2 can garner a 1.0 they are probably well in the black in that time slot given what rights fees are for soccer in the USA. Second, is there a higher profile college hoops game pre tournament than Duke-UNC? I'd say these rating stand up well. PS-- don't whine about Raycomm and blackouts etc... ESPN can't charge for blacked out sets; only who's coming to them.
Again, i am not quite what you are trying to say with this latest post. However, I don't care anymore and give up. Univision is a better barometer for US Nats support than ESPN. There i said it. Congratulations.
Here is what happened in this thread, I suspect: There's a history on BigSoccer of some posters overlooking or even writing off Spanish-language ratings for such telecasts as MLS, the World Cup, etc. This has caused friction with some other posters, particularly those of Spanish-speaking heritage. (Understandably so, in many cases.) The whole situation is probably exacerbated by the fact that U.S. media outlets, when reporting ratings for these events, often do not include the Spanish-language figures in their totals (something that bugs most everybody around here, because it underplays the totality of the U.S. soccer audience). Thus, in other words, there is an established debate stance around here regarding soccer ratings vis-a-vis Univision. Some posters are conditioned to be defensive when talk of Univision and ratings comes up. That's what we just experienced in this thread, I think. Someone saw Univision ratings being discounted and -- through force of habit -- reacted in the standard way, the way it's done in situations where such reactions are justified. What was overlooked was the fact that, in this case, the discounting of Univision was being done for a reason different than the standard discounting of Univision, the one that's rightly irritating. But the argument having been started -- with lines drawn and positions taken -- the argument did what arguments do: It continued, and continued, ultimately descending into a hair-splitting fest. Hair-splitting is often what happens when someone labors to defend a position that was based on the misinterpretation of an argument's premise. And that, I think, is what happened in this thread.
If ESPN was the only broadcaster of the US/Mexico match, would Univision's viewers have watched it on ESPN? Would that have had an increase on ESPN's ratings number? If so, would the Spanish viewership have counted then, on an "American" channel? And what would the new ESPN number have been then? Likewise... The Super Bowl this year recorded a 43.3 rating on the Fox network. Since it was the ONLY channel to telecast the game in the US, everyone who wanted to watch it(including the Spanish viewership) tuned in to Fox. Now, if Univision had gotten permission to telecast the game also, do you think most of the Spanish viewership would have tuned to Univision? If so, would that have lowered Fox's number? If it did, then would that new number have been accurate... or fair? The point is, the ratings for all other non-soccer sporting events do not distinguish between "American" and "non-American" viewers. The bottom line is, a viewer is a viewer is a viewer! Regardless on which channel he/she is watching a telecast. It just so happens that some soccer telecasts are split between two channels. As uclacarlos has said, that 1.0 ESPN rating is incomplete. You have to combine it with the Univision number to get the total and true viewership in the US. That way, when comparing against other US sports, you are comparing apples-to-apples. So, if a soccer basher says to you: "Ha, such and such soccer game did 'only' a 1.0 on ESPN!", you have every right to point out to him that the ESPN number is incomplete and must add it to Univision's number.
"Nuance" a foreign word to you? ESPN represents part of the audience. A large part, but still not 100%. Honestly. This isn't rocket science.
If 100% of the viewers from last Wednesday were pro-Mexico, then yeah... you'd have a point. But the numbers are so large on Univision that even a paltry 2% pro-US adds significantly to the ESPN numbers in any attempt to gauge the number of USMNT fans. This. Is. Not. Rocket. Science, ppl.
i know quite a few non spanish speaking USMNT fans who watched the game on Univision because they dont get ESPN2
Can we all just agree that 6 million people were exposed (regardless of who thery were supporting) to the United States Mens National team on their television sets last week? 6 million people saw Jozy Altidore's first ever goal for the United States Mens National Team. 6 million people heard references to Michael Bradley being the son of the coach, Bob Bradley. 6 million people saw Drew Moor's poor marking. 6 million people saw "Gooch" score his second best goal ever. 6 million people probably heard about why an American player like Landon Donovan is so hated in Mexico. 6 million people heard about how the US has dominated Mexico since 2000. 6 million people saw 2 players with Mexican heritage suit up for the United States Mens National Team. 6 million tuned in to watch a match featuring the United States Mens National Team. 6 million 6 million 6 million 6 million!!!
Tambo's post #31 summed everything up the best. My original posts were misinterpreted and that got us into a cock out over this whole topic which i don't even disagree with what Carlos has said. This was never about me discounting Spanish speakers or Univision numbers in the way portrayed by Carlos and many others. I am sorry for the pain I have caused.
Here's the original post that you agreed with: and My entire point is that Univision has a small but significant number of UMSNT fans, just like most of their programming has roughly 10% non-Latino viewers. Even your low-ball 2% number raises ESPN's 1 million viewers 10% to 1.1 million viewers. That's a significant bump. And that's a low figure. I'd guess -- and this is an estimation -- that it's closer to 6-8%. My argument also jives w/ what we know about MLS demographics (30-40% Latino fan-base league-wide) and the fact that Univision is investing in programming for USMNT and MLS. And it's not solely b/c they're an opponent of Mexico. That's a major, major component, but it's b/c they know that there are Spanish-speaking followers of USMNT. And there are Anglophone fans who don't get ESPN.
USA vs. Mexico had 9.9 ratings on Univision, and 1.1 on ESPN2. Check out how much the Pro Bowl got... http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5535215.html The U.S. game had higher ratings than ANY NFL Pro Bowl this decade
I believe the Univison rating you're quoting is just in the Houston market. And, honestly, is there a worse all-star game than the freaking Pro Bowl?
Univision Runs Past ESPN2 With U.S.-Mexico 'Friendly' "All told, Univision officials said some 9.6 million tuned in some part of the match, and that the network beat ABC, CBS, NBC and CW among adults 18 to 34 during the aforementioned time period"
WOW havent been in this one in a while, but I'll respond I can see how the Univiosn numbers will help the MLS It means soccer will get more exposure in this country, no matter to who, and that will raise attendance numbers. This CAN have effects on the USMNT, though, i must say. It will be upon MLS to use these raised attendances and more money in a smart way to get more superstars over here. We get more money, allow for larger contracts, and we get players better than Becks in skill, and hopefully more that are close to him in notability (altough, like Becks, over the jill a bit in skill). But the ESPN numbers will show more of what will happen with the USMNT in more of a direct manner. The English speakers are more likely to play for us, the spanish speakers, well I cant really speak for them.
It's not just about "building interest" in MLS. Even looking at the raw numbers, NOT 100% OF UNIVISION'S 9.6 MILLION VIEWERS WERE PRO-MEXICO. Even an extremely modest 1% means close to 100,000 fans of the USMNT. I'd venture to guess that Univision's tally of USMNT fans would probably be about half of the ESPN numbers. A guess, of course, but a fairly educated and rational guess. Given Univision's investment in USMNT and MLS, I'd say that this isn't a possibility but a definite. How so? You do realize, don't you, that the ESPN numbers reflect fans of Mexico as well, right? 749,000 - 7,490 (1% of total viewers = pro-Mexico, for argument's sake) 741,510 USMNT fans 5.1 mill -350K (pro-US viewers on Univision) 4.75 mill Mexico nat fans In order to get the "raw number" of fans for either team, you have to subtract opposing fans from the equation. ESPN's numbers are no more "direct" than Univision's. They may seem that way. But they're not. Bullshit. That's just f'ing bullshit. The language that a player chooses to watch a game has zero impact on whether or not he ultimately chooses to play for the US or not. The factors are: talent citizenship issues: is he a US citizen? Does he have a right to Mexican citizenship? will he get looked at by both countries or just one where does he have his heart? (IF and only if he gets attention from both sides) #4 is the only factor that ESPN would be revealing in any way, shape or form. But before getting to that point, there are just so many things that come into play that #4 becomes irrelevant when looking at the grand scheme of things. The USMNT has Spanish-speaking players at all levels, fyi. So important is this demographic to soccer in the US that the national team coach is essentially required to speak Spanish. And it's not just b/c the Mexican media will want comments from him.
I'm glad Univision had that many people watching the game in the US. I can care less what language they speak. In the end, millions of people watched a soccer friendly in the US. In my opinion, the numbers are positive for the sport in this country. Plenty of those folks that watched the game on Univision are Americans and their kids will grow up and play for the US mens national team
Dude, come on, man. You're a smart guy. Use your intelligence to shrink the chip on your shoulder a little bit. It's unbecoming. Seriously.
Despite some anecdotal evidence to the contrary many non Mexican HIspanic viewers are rooting for the US or at least against Mexico in this type of matches...