Tudor Out! Board Out!

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by jumhed, Mar 10, 2026.

  1. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

    May 18, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    I read that Levy's lawyers are threatening to sue for defamation if Vinnie keeps blaming him for the club's problems.
     
  2. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Levy was, during his lengthy tenure, all over the shop, appointment-wise. He was constantly chopping and changing - not only in gaffers, but DoFs, and other footy-related staff - with varying degrees of success. The pieces of the puzzle at the time of his ouster were, in the sum of those parts, almost surely among his worst. It was as close to any point in his tenure where he deserved the sack ... and ergo, the worst time for him to get it. Because that's what his successors were left with, and without the wherewithal to address it.

    Levy's fingerprints are all over this mess, there's no getting around that. But if there's one reasonable thing to presume, it is that he would have, were he still in charge, dealt with the last six months differently than his successors. Based upon 25 years of precedent, it's almost inconceivable that he would have left Frank in place as long as was done. And if Harry's claims are true, its fair to say the direction Levy would have taken would have been rather different than going with Igor Tudor.

    Now, that doesn't mean we'd be better off than we are now - we'd still have more-or-less the same players on the pitch. But the downward trajectory we've been on since Levy's exit are at least as attributable to the executive decisions made since as they are to what was in place on 4 September.

    Should we go down, Levy will not have got us relegated. We were in 4th when he 'stepped down' and he'll've been nine months gone. But Levy will certainly have put in place those that did. So how much blame to heap upon him is a parlor game that can't be won. But one thing is certain: the more folks blame Levy, the less Venkatesham is accountable - and it's been his baby for six months now.
     
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  3. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Sep 28, 2019
    California
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    does this stem from they spent too much on the new stadium, so didn't have enough funds/had to cut back in other areas? i thought Levy used to say that basically. He would say we had a lot of debt and we had to be frugal.
     
  4. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    One word, incompetence.
     
  5. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    There is suddenly a lot of revisionism about Levy as though he were some kind of misunderstood martyr.

    Would he have sacked Frank earlier? Not sure. He certainly didn't pull the trigger on Ange.

    As for Harry, would he have really brought him in for Frank? After sacking him in 2012, after we finished 4th? (yet another dim-witted decision btw).

    This is an Enic-created mess, and they are all responsible, Levy, the Lewis's, My Cosuin Vinai, the Danish Pastry, you name it.
     
  6. jumhed

    jumhed Member+

    Mar 26, 2001
    London
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Levy would've sacked Frank in November or December.
     
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  7. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    So why didn't he do the same with Ange last season?
     
  8. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    We can't know the answers to either of those, of course. Like Jum, I'm just presuming Frank would've gone much earlier based upon 20+ years of trigger-happiness. Ange does offer a glaring (and recent) exception, to be fair, though one suspects that he was left in situ pursuant to the obtainable (and obtained) Europa League, and of course, was in fact sacked after. Still, one could similarly speculate that Frank might've been left in so long as the Champions League campaign was moving along, too, so ... ok.

    As to whether or not he would have brought back Harry, I am definitely not assuming that. I was simply suggesting that such thinking represents a rather different approach than Igor Tudor.

    As to the 2012 sacking of Harry Redknapp, well, I'm 100% on board with your opinion of that decision. I was livid about it then ... and having just been reminded, now I'm a bit pissed about it all over again.
     
  9. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    I've guessed at it in the post above. Rightly or wrongly? Who knows?

    The only other thing I'll throw in is the threat of relegation. It was never a factor last season, not because we weren't shite, but because the three relegated sides were never a threat to get out of it. Which begs the question, at what point in this season would Levy have perceived the threat of relegation to be real?

    While virtually all of this discussion is pure speculation, I do think it's fair to presume that Levy would have been very pro-active in trying to avoid that potential catastrophe - for fiscal, if not footy, reasons. I won't waste anyone's time trying to guess when. But a level of patience with Frank anywhere near his successors' is tough to envision.
     
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  10. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    That's one of the things that I found so :rolleyes:-worthy about Venkatesham's statement. He thumps his chest about eliminating Levy's confining wage structure and then follows it up with "but don't expect us to spend. Levy's not left us as financially sound as you thought."

    "Levy's too tight" and "there's no money to spend" can't both be right.
     
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  11. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    They can in Enic's world.
     
  12. Phillyspur

    Phillyspur Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Mar 18, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    We all come to this with massive doses of hindsight and nostalgia.

    About 2,000 Spurs think-pieces ago (ie about 5 days) Barney Ronay of the Guardian, a writer I normally enjoy, wrote about the folly of appointing Tudor. How silly of them to do that, he said, just because he'd saved other clubs in similar situations. Well... what other basis do you have for hiring someone, other than their track record? Vibes? Ronay was just lazily applying hindsight. Of course Tudor is a bad appointment, we know that now, but how many knew it a month ago?

    Same with all the speculation about Redknapp, Pochettino, anyone that harks back to some better time for the club. It's just lazy, but demand for Spurs content is at an all time high, so any old guff can get published/broadcast.
     
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  13. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Naturally.

    Back when I was managing with Barnes & Noble, whenever a manager would quit or move on for any reason, whenever anything would go wrong over the ensuing week or two, the response would always be "blame ________ ". Of course, we would just say it jokingly ... Vinai applies it in earnest.
     
  14. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
  15. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Sep 28, 2019
    California
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First off I would have made a requirement that the manager be familiar with, you know, the Premier League. That eliminates Tudor right off the bat

    That said, who knows if he'll turn it around. its possible. I don't know enough about him. But I think trying stick to attacking/entertaining football in this situation is dumb. I guess you'll get lots of entertaining football in the Championship
     
  16. jumhed

    jumhed Member+

    Mar 26, 2001
    London
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    I'm not a Levy revisionist. I have always been pretty pro-Levy. I do believe in the saying 'What got us here, won't get us there', so Levy moving on should've been a good move.
    Levy, aside from Ange, was always pretty trigger happy when it came to firing managers. A slump saw all booted out.
    However, these owners are absolute idiots.
    Flange and My Cousin Vinai need to go.
     
  17. Phillyspur

    Phillyspur Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Mar 18, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    My Cousin Vinai is a very appropriate name, because pretty soon all we'll have left playing is "two yutes"
     
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  18. Lazy Assed Assassin

    Jul 21, 2015
    Obviously a lot of speculation on my part here, but on the surface sticking with Frank was the right approach at the wrong time. Many a Spurs fans bemoaned Levy’s trigger happy sackings. Seeing the patience with Arteta paying dividends I understand the intent, but it was dogmatic here. Patience was the virtue, it was anti-Levy. Sacking Frank earlier would have been an organizational black eye for this new team and, so, like a textbook case study of the sunk cost fallacy they thought if they could just push through it would all work out, because how bad could it get, it’s not like we’ll be relegated. We’ll find out in a few weeks time if they realized too late just how bad it was.
     
  19. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

    May 18, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    The difference being that winning the Europa League was an achievable goal. Thinking we could win the Champions League is just delusional.

    He can't turn it around if the injury curse continues. Two players concussing themselves during stoppage time of a 5-2 defeat was just icing on the cake, no?

    Championship games could be entertaining, though I don't know how many we would be able to see here in the US.
     
  20. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

    May 18, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    I thought Levy was trigger happy, too, but Frank didn't improve the defense and he made the offense worse. If a couch potato like me could see this back in October or November, the guys running the club should have figured it out much sooner than they did.
     
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  21. jumhed

    jumhed Member+

    Mar 26, 2001
    London
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    True, Frank kept putting the same players out in a dreadful set-up that all of us could see wasn't working and wasn't going to miraculously start working.
    Bentancur and Paulinha as DM's and Spence as an LB every damn game, and crap every time.
     
  22. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    I'm sympathetic toward this point, as i would have to include myself among those quite late to the 'Frank out' party, for more-or-less the reasons stated.

    I felt the project needed time, and as I would tell my very Frank out (very early) mate Tyler, as long as the players dont down tools, I want to stay with it. Based upon what we are hearing now, the players appear to have bought out of this manager long before I recognized evidence thereof.

    Of course, it's equally frustrating how quick and often our players seem to 'buy out'. And that, perhaps, is a contributor to Levy's frustrating inability to stick with his gaffers. The players always appeared to have his ear ... the oft-lamented 'leadership group' that seemed to undermine our managers. Mildly ironic then that the absence of this element, that frustrated so many (me included), might end up being crucial in the end.

    I mean, if that is one's perspective. Probably not worth treading too far down that path, though. I mean, the whole 'who's to blame?' exercise is sooo exhausting. The players? The managers? The chairmen? The more you look at any of 'em, the more culprits you find.

    Effing Spurs.
     
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  23. Lazy Assed Assassin

    Jul 21, 2015
    Does Tudor survive the weekend? Does it matter?
     
  24. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Probably not, but there is zero percent chance of survival with him in charge.
     
  25. Phillyspur

    Phillyspur Member+

    Tottenham Hotspur
    England
    Mar 18, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Tudor didn't do post-game press because his father passed away, and he was told right after the game.
     

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