News: Tribune expose on Fire stadium effect on taxpayers

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by genpabloescobar, Jun 9, 2012.

  1. genpabloescobar

    Feb 17, 2002
  2. OPB

    OPB Member

    Nov 28, 2000
    Can you say BOONDOGGLE!
    _________________________________________
    THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING!!!!!!!!!!
     
  3. ratdog

    ratdog Member+

    Mar 22, 2004
    In the doghouse
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I take it that neither of previous two posters are familiar with Illinois politics. This wouldn't even crack the top ten for either the City of Chicago or the statehouse in Springfield.
     
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  4. genpabloescobar

    Feb 17, 2002
    Well, I didn't post this as my social partisan commentary on what is wrong with government today...that said, since you didn't ask, I'll tell you anyways just because a good percentage of politician's ethics are questionable to bankrupt, it doesn't mean we should be accepting of new ethically questionable entrants because we're so used to the status quo.

    And by your questionable logic, we shouldn't even question Hauptmann's bad decisions anymore because he's made so many bad ones already.


    I posted it as news because I think it raises an interesting "What if?" question in my mind: What if AEG didn't cede 100% ownership of the stadium to Bridgeview. IIRC, and I'll admit it's been awhile, AEG was originally supposed to be the principal owner with Bridgeview giving the financial incentives to build the stadium there, but at some point, Bridgeview said, "Hey guys, you know what? We want the whole thing, and you can just lease from us."

    Now, assuming my memory is correct, or close enough...if AEG didn't cede the ownership to Bridgeview, when it came time to divest of their MLS teams,

    Does AEG still sell the Fire? Presumably.
    Do they hold on to the stadium or sell that too? To who?
    Does Hauptmann buy it if AEG owns the stadium and not Bridgeview?

    Who owns what today if the original deal was in place.


    I don't know the answers to these questions...but like Red Bull Arena is destroying Harrison, this is now (at least) two stadiums that have absolutely killed their town's finances, and it's gonna be harder and harder for cities in the league to justify building new ones. I realize that most MLS teams have sufficient stadiums already so it's not as big a deal as say, six years ago, but how are you gonna get your more geographically acceptable replacement for Toyota Park in X years when every suburb is going to point at Bridgeview's books and say "Hell no!"?
     
  5. loonixxx

    loonixxx Member+

    Chicago Red Stars
    Aug 28, 2004
    Soccer Limbo
    Club:
    Jagiellonia Bialystok SSA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Wait wait wait. Red Bull Arena is destroying Harrison? News to me. I thought Red Bull financed the whole thing out of their own pocket. :confused:
     
  6. genpabloescobar

    Feb 17, 2002
  7. Fanaddict

    Fanaddict Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    streamwood IL USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thank god for crooked politicians. If they had waited until 2008 or later no stadium would have been built anywhere.
     
  8. dlm_Fire

    dlm_Fire Member+

    Aug 16, 2002
    Chicago
    Is this really news? There seemed plenty of stories about how shady these guys were when the stadium deal was getting put together.
     
  9. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    I thought it was a nice change of pace compared to all of the articles we've been flooded with regarding our player acquisitions, USOC run and all around riveting advances as a club.
     
    ionprovisioner, scaryice and Chris M. repped this.
  10. Fanaddict

    Fanaddict Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    streamwood IL USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    If bridgeview hadn't offered to pay for the stadium aeg wouldn't have paid for it. peter wilt said once the fire could have had land by sox park but the would have had to pay for the stadium.
    I think most of the time it is a losing proposition for towns but they want the prestige and jobs to hand out.It's easy to look back and say it was a bad deal but if the economy hadn't tanked maybe there would be a lot of development around TP and money would have flowed into bridgeview.
     
  11. genpabloescobar

    Feb 17, 2002
    I think it was going to be a partnership on the ownership...AEG wasn't building the whole thing themselves with Bridgeview kicking in some, but then they decided to take on the whole enchilada.

    And you're right...if that hotel and water park gets build in the stadium parking lot corner, maybe they do better. It is going to be a prestige deal and probably a money loser, or a break evener, but they seemed to be so off base (or crooked...or both) with their projections.
     
  12. genpabloescobar

    Feb 17, 2002
    I guess if you don't live in Bridgeview it's easy to take a "well, sucks to be them" response. But there could be ramifications here that do affect you...if Bridgeview can no longer afford to provide adequate police presence around the stadium before/after the game because they're broke, traffic control could go from medicore/bad (depending on your expectations) to worse...
     
  13. Pablo Chicago

    Pablo Chicago Member+

    Sep 7, 2005
    Sweet Home Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The article has some links to newsletters and financial statements, but Bridgeview hasn't been forth coming with all of those projections that demonstrated how the city was going to come out ahead or worst-case scenario break even. Those projections would be an interesting read and a decent case study for any other city interested in following the Mayor of Bridgeview's lead. Best case scenario the city council was negligent in performing due diligence. Worst case scenario? As the article insinuates, a handful of people made money on the deal, and political careers were advanced. In either case, the results are the same; the taxpayers are left holding the bag.
     
  14. Iceblink

    Iceblink Member

    Oct 11, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Run? Wasn't even a limp. It was more like Diego Serna in the penalty box with sudden leg paralysis.
     
  15. Fanaddict

    Fanaddict Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    streamwood IL USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any projections made in 2006 or before would not be true as even the best economists did not forsee the housing bust or stock market collapse.The article mentions a tripling of the city tax in the last 10 years implying TP is to blame but most towns have increased their tax levy and TP has been around only 6 years. Also the city or town portion of your propeerty tax bill is nothing compared to the school tax you pay.
     
    loonixxx repped this.
  16. krolpolski

    krolpolski Member+

    How does this explain why the roof isn't finished, or the parking lot unpaved, or why the beer is so expensive. Or since we've moved into the place, we haven't won an MLS title?
     
    murtaugh repped this.
  17. Pablo Chicago

    Pablo Chicago Member+

    Sep 7, 2005
    Sweet Home Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not suggesting that they should have forseen the collapse, but I would be curious to see if any one of the scenarios they looked at asked the question, "What happens if there is no growth or development around Toyota Park after we build it?" Seems like a very real possibility, even in a good economy, given the stadium's location.
     
  18. SixKick

    SixKick Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2000
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Exactly, I wonder what tangible ways has "the economy" led to such major deficits. Our attendance has been on par with what it was in Soldier Field. Ticket prices have been about average by league standards and parking/concession are about as expensive as you can reasonably expect. Supposedly they've been hitting their benchmarks on concerts as well.

    We got a shitty naming rights deal, but that was before the collapse, and at best would have added only around $15 million. The stadium itself was always going to big a major loss. The added tax revenue from the hotel and water park would have had to have been enormous to offset the losses from the stadium. But as you point out, this project was merely in the early planning stages when the stadium passed. If that was really their plan, then they were following one big bet with another. Like betting away the house and then doubling down with your wife.
     
    Pablo Chicago repped this.
  19. dlm_Fire

    dlm_Fire Member+

    Aug 16, 2002
    Chicago
    Every time I try to talk with my wife about such things, she gets a kitchen knife.
     
    BrianJames repped this.
  20. Fanaddict

    Fanaddict Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    streamwood IL USA
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Traffic might improve without police making you go the opposite direction you want to go.
     
  21. Pablo Chicago

    Pablo Chicago Member+

    Sep 7, 2005
    Sweet Home Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's like I told the police, he fell on my knife.....he fell on my knife 5 times.
     
  22. LIZZIE

    LIZZIE BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 18, 2001
    Sec 126
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do they get the maximum use out of TP? Seems it sits empty a significant amount of time.
     
  23. Kozy

    Kozy tHE pOPULAR fRONT

    Oct 13, 2004
    check.
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Swap-a-rama Flea Market!
     
  24. Sparky98

    Sparky98 Member

    Jun 8, 2007
    Hey maybe FK could find a DP we could swap some used equipment for.
     
  25. firefan2001

    firefan2001 Member+

    Dec 27, 2000
    Oswego, Illinois
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We wouldn't get much for Pause......:D
     

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