Treacherous Alliance: The Secret Dealings of Israel, Iran, and the United States

Discussion in 'International News' started by Mani, Sep 6, 2007.

  1. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    1. That's really not up to me to accept. However, I do think, that maybe with time, maybe, East Jerusalem can be recognized as a Palestinian capital. There won't be any confederation, symbolic or not, rather 2 state capitals, as was East and West Berlin (although we both know how that ended.) But Jerusalem has to always be a Jewish capital as well.
    2. I don't think Iran really needs to be involved in this, unless it's a beneficial involvment to both parties. Iran can still be what it wants to be and ignore how Israelis and Palestinians compromise on a peace agreement. That should be up to Israel and Palestine only. No US and no Iran.

    you just couldn't resist making one post w/out laying guilt on US and Israel. I believe that it's Iran who is resisting any reasonable peace agreements, mostly by arming groups like Hamas and Hezbollah.
     
  2. !Bob

    !Bob Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    UK
    Kettle...pot....

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4380067.stm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6985808.stm

    Looks like the chosen people have urges too.

    The book seems like an interesting read. I will add one point to IM's comments that it has been long believed that Iran had sought to foment the Arab-Israeli feud as otherwise, the alternative enemy would have been Iran. Hence some believed that comments by AN were politically clever to maintain the Arab public pressure on the issue of Israel. Israel (as well as the US, although more likely not aiming to do so) have tried to bring into light the Sunni-Shiite (Arab-Iran) divide. Of course, an alliance between Iran and Israel to maintain a balance against the Arabs (knowing individually they would face a significant threat) would not be very likely because of American oil interests and relationship with some of the Arab states.

    The way I see it, it all goes back to economically driven policies which has resulted in a status quo of constant feuding where no one will have it easy, but at least the others don't have it too easy either. There are political issues that do come up (such as neocon agendas in the US; mix of religious "zealousy" and politics in current Iranian administration; and Israel's unjustified actions in building the wall to further annex land and restrict access to farm land/water and general access or the building of settlements [although much of this is largely "internal").

    Solution? As one intelligent American put it, make a fucking glass crater of the whole of middle east. That is probably the most likely solution because otherwise it would require either for US policies to change into more of a moralistic agenda instead of the economically self-interest driven that it is, or for American hegemony to be removed (perhaps multi-lateral superpower) and replaced with other superpowers that are more moral (if you thought American change of policy was unlikely, imagine a moral Russia or China!) Like I said, glass crater.
     
  3. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Feeling suicidal or are you just depressed today? I mean, there is got to be a better soluton to these problems than "glass crater," how about change in leadership all over ME, how about change in foreign policy, how about economical stability?
     
  4. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Dude, what the hell? Wusup with all the assumptions? As far as I know, HerthaBerwyn isn't Iranian and I have been offline since I created this thread, so don't blame me.
     
  5. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    i was talking about Rostam, but Hertha did start it, so you have a point there.

    Anyhow, back to the original program.
     
  6. pasdare-enghelab

    pasdare-enghelab New Member

    Sep 5, 2007

    We all know that Persians and Jews have a long history and our culture is close but we are also an Islamic country so we must stick to other Islamic roots as well. I would like to mention that good friendship between Jews and Persians is different than good friendship with Persians and Israel because as far as I am concerned Israel does not represent all Jews and the religion of Judaism. The founder of the Islamic Republic Ayatollah Khomaini ( RIP) made sure that Jews and Christians were given constitutional rights when he first came into power . And just recently the government of Iran spent $6 million for the construction of a Jewish cultural center in Tehran.
     
  7. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    I am sure Iran does not represent all Persians and their POVs. Realistically, majority of Jewish community in the world relies heavily and centers their views on what is happening in Israel and thus if a country has very negative relatins with Israel, it makes it very difficult and almost impossible for that country to have strong relatins with Jewish community worldwide.
     
  8. pasdare-enghelab

    pasdare-enghelab New Member

    Sep 5, 2007
    Iran does not represents all Persians in Tajikistan , Afghanistan and so on but it is important to mention that all Persian speaking people rely on the Persians in Iran for cultural things such as Persian music and movies . American Jews and European Jews alike might look at Israel for their guidance but that doesn’t change the principle that thousands of Persian Jews distant themselves from Israel. Iranian Jews will always say they are Iranian first and then Jewish , whereas American-European Jews consider their religion their nationality . Even the Iranians Jews who decided to live in Israel will always say they are Iranian. I think Iran should never have full relationship with the state of Israel , they should have low level diplomatic relationship but no where to the extent of the dictators shahs relationship with Israel .
     
  9. pasdare-enghelab

    pasdare-enghelab New Member

    Sep 5, 2007
    Odessit I am guessing you are Jewish , so what do you think about those Jewish neo-nazi group they just caught in Israel which you say is the center of life for all Jews worldwide .
     
  10. eric_appleby

    eric_appleby Member+

    Jun 11, 1999
    Down East
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    To be factual, the city was founded by the Canaanites.

    Persia and the Jews have a long history.
    Jerusalem was sacked by Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, in 586 bc. Most of the population was relocated to the area of modern day Iraq. Several decades later Babylon was conquered by Persia, and it was Cyrus in 539 BC who allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem. The Jewish state was allowed to exist within the Persian Empire.

    I understand what Ahmahdinejad is trying to say. The creation of the Israeli state was illegitimate. Rightful landowners were dispossesed. But, it comes across as, we want to kill every Jew in Israel.
     
  11. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
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    Why would you say that? Why not? I think you missed my point, which was to show that besides 30,000 Iranians Jews, there are other Jews everywhere and they all in one way or another relate to Israel and thus it's impossibel to impress upon them anything else that does not effect Israel and her security because that means security of all Jews in the world.
     
  12. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    I will venture a guess and say they don't consider themselves to be Jewish.
    They fled the Soviet Union b/c let's be honest, it sucked there (I know), to come to a Western country for a so-called better life. They are a bunch of no-good SOBs, who deserve to be deported to whichever FSU city they came from.

    And if nothing I said here ends up being true, there are nutjobs and bad people in all societies and countries, so in this sense, Israel is no different. Few bad apples....it just hurts a bit more b/c Israel gave these ********s a home and this is how they repay their country. :mad:
     
  13. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
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    Club:
    AC Milan
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    Kind of. I guess, there were many USSR citizens who hated their country so much that they found that they are 1/8 Jewish from their grandmother's side and decided to leave USSR for Israel, where obviously they decided to stay. IMO, they might be disfranchised teens who wanted to do something irrational or they are scumbags who will go to jail now and hopefully get what they deserve in jail as well. Either way, there are plenty of anti-semites everywhere, even in Israel. I am not sure what my other statement has to do with this. Are you telling me that Israel is not the center of Jewish life and community in the world?
    Besides New York of course.
     
  14. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Really? And who are the rightful landowners? Is the creation of Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Pakistan also illegitimate? i guess turning a pile of sand into a modern nation within 50 years is a crime, God forbid, we look elsewhere for the blame of ME issues.
    By the way, it is pleasing to know that you understand Ahmadinejad and his true intentions - I am sure he just wants to speak his mind and let everyone know that UN, along with the majority of the world community, was way off in '48.
     
  15. eric_appleby

    eric_appleby Member+

    Jun 11, 1999
    Down East
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Odessit, the highlighted sentence is my interpretation of what Ahmahdinejad believes.
     
  16. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
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    I misinterpreted what you meant - apologies.
    To add, IMO, what Ahmadinejad meant was a bit more than just what you suggest, with more focus on how he was going to fix this "problem."
     
  17. pasdare-enghelab

    pasdare-enghelab New Member

    Sep 5, 2007
    Because it doesn’t benefit Iran to have full diplomatic relationship with a country like Israel in the Middle East . Iran has to keep in mind that we are surrounded by millions of Arabs and our relationship with them will be damaged if we become allies with Israel so its more beneficial to be friends with Arabs than Israelis .
     
  18. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Maybe Arasb should learn from Iran if it comes to that - instead of other way around, pandering to the lowest denominator.
     
  19. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Red Card

    Feb 13, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But there isn't exactly any love lost between arabs and Iran is there?
    And while I see the point you are making, it seems it would be in Iran's best interests to be on good terms with the US, Israel, and China and Russia.
     
  20. !Bob

    !Bob Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    UK
    With the exception of one or two posts, I am dumber for having read the last 15 or so posts.
     
  21. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    even if this is the case, what is the point of you telling us this?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

    should we all thank you for wasting 5 seconds of our lives reading your post?
     
  22. pasdare-enghelab

    pasdare-enghelab New Member

    Sep 5, 2007
    people to people there is no love between Arabs and Persians but government to government there should be good relationship with all Arab countries. I made my point earlier, its more beneficial for Iran. And it should do Iran’s relationship with the United States no harm if its not allies with Israel , just look at Saudi Arabia , they have no relationship Israel and yet they are loved by the United States government . of course , this is all hypothetical .
     
  23. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Red Card

    Feb 13, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Should Mods be allowed to troll? And again, why can't we ignore mods when they aren't mods of a forum?
     
  24. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Red Card

    Feb 13, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is true, there is no requirement to be friends with Israel in order to be friends with the US. As for Arab Govts. and Iran's Govt. since they are all essentially Islamic Govt. doesn't the shia/sunni split have much to do with any acrimony between them?
     
  25. pasdare-enghelab

    pasdare-enghelab New Member

    Sep 5, 2007
    In my opinion it has little impact . If the Iranian government were to adopt a foreign policy that encouraged a full blitz diplomatic relationship with the Arab governments then the Arabs wouldn’t care about the sunni/shia split . The war in Iraq is the cause of the tension between sunnis/shias right now , once the smoke clears and the United States leaves Iraq and things settle down then there will be no problems between the shias and the sunnis .
     

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