Treacherous Alliance: The Secret Dealings of Israel, Iran, and the United States

Discussion in 'International News' started by Mani, Sep 6, 2007.

  1. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    This is a great book about the Iranian-Israeli relations, and secret dealings, and how Israel and Iran have much more in common than meets the eye.

    [​IMG]

    Here are excerpts from the book:
     
  2. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Some Editorial Reviews of this book:

    Shlomo Ben-Ami :
    “A brilliant interpretation of one of today’s most enigmatic conflicts. In a sober and original analysis, Dr. Parsi unearths the true nature of the tension in the triangle Iran-Israel-USA as a manipulation by all parties—especially the Israelis and the Iranians—of ideological differences to conceal what can be a solvable strategic dispute. This is a study about the manipulation of ideology and religion in the struggle for mastery in the Middle East.”—Shlomo Ben-Ami, Israel’s former foreign minister and author of Scars of War, Wounds of Peace: The Israeli-Arab Tragedy

    The Honorable Zbigniew Brzezinski :
    “A penetrating, provocative, and very timely study that deciphers how U.S. policy in the Middle East has been manipulated both by Iran and by Israel even as relations between these two oscillated between secret collusion and overt collision.”— The Honorable Zbigniew Brzezinski, former US National Security Advisor to President Jimmy Carter

    Francis Fukuyama :
    “In Treacherous Alliance, Trita Parsi makes a persuasive case that since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, Iran has consistently used ideology to achieve hardheaded national interest objectives, rather than sacrifice national interest on the altar of extremist ideological goals. This is an extremely important point to bear in mind as Iran''s relations with US and Israel deteriorate and the prospect of yet another Persian Gulf conflict looms. This work, based on extensive interviews with decision makers in three countries, contributes both to our historical understanding and our current policy debate.”—Francis Fukuyama, author of America at the Crossroads
     
  3. HerthaBerwyn

    HerthaBerwyn Member+

    May 24, 2003
    Chicago
    Now youve done it. No one non Israeli is allowed to discuss Israel.
     
  4. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    :rolleyes:anything else you want to add? I'm allowing you to.



    good thread mani.
     
  5. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    All right, so what is the point of this book? It sounds very interesting, but does it give some suggestions on how to solve the current boiling conflict? I was always sure that Persians and Jews have much more in common than either one with Arabs, but how can this bridge be built right now with weak Israeli politicians, incompetent American administration and crazy Iranian leadership?
     
  6. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Well, not all are chosen. Sucks to be you...
     
  7. HerthaBerwyn

    HerthaBerwyn Member+

    May 24, 2003
    Chicago
    Maybe not chosen, but circumcised all the same. (and VERY nicely I f I do say so) thank you all for that innovation. (If in fact it cane from the Tribesman and wasnt assimilated from elsewhere)
     
  8. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Well, you're half way there then or at least a part of you is;)
     
  9. HerthaBerwyn

    HerthaBerwyn Member+

    May 24, 2003
    Chicago
    And if I walk into a wall my nose wont hit first.
     
  10. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Well, then maybe you should stop taking Viagra or Cialis...
     
  11. Rostam

    Rostam Member

    Dec 11, 2005
    Outch, that must hurt!!! :D
     
  12. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    I see you found an entertainer to keep your spirit up. I am truly shocked that you're enjoying yourself so much.
     
  13. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Any more new and creative jokes you have from Fatherland's late 1930's archives?
     
  14. Rostam

    Rostam Member

    Dec 11, 2005
    Ohhhhhh, please don't be shocked! It's just an innocent entertainment. ;)
     
  15. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    You know, Mani actually started a very interesting thread, yet you and the other comedian are just wasting bandwidth.
    Maybe you can actually participate in the topic of this thread.:rolleyes:
     
  16. Rostam

    Rostam Member

    Dec 11, 2005
    I just wish you would let people be. Anyway,

    by the city of Babylon, they sat down and cried................ :)
     
  17. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    :confused:
    Sometimes I think it's people like yourself who really don't want any possible dialog with the other side. Keep it up...
     
  18. Rostam

    Rostam Member

    Dec 11, 2005
    ..and why would you say that???

    I mentioned how you sat by the River of Babylon and Cried!!!!
     
  19. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    i'm sure if this was Crow or Ben threadjacking, Mani would say something, but since it's his fellow Iranian, no complaints.

    Mani, it's your thread.......don't you care?

    And btw, the jokes are really outdated and not funny. Surely you can all come up with more modern and better ways to make fun of Jews.:rolleyes:
     
  20. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    1) Titra Parsi essentially outlines how the issues between Iran and Israel arise, not from 'crazy Iranian leadership', but sober national security calculations. In that context, Iran would remain hostile to any 'peace' between the Arabs and the Israelis so long as that peace if formed under an American umbrella that excludes Iran. That would isolate Iran and directly threaten its national security interests. Conversely, Iran would certainly not find the elimination of Israel as in its interests, since that would then allow the Arabs to later gang up on Iran. The latter is not something Iran would ever want to genuinely encourage either.

    2) The resolution of the problems between Iran and Israel require the following:

    a) a strategic understanding between Iran and US/Israel where the respected spheres of each of the parties is propertly recognized, and where common interests are promoted in the relations between these spheres. Such spheres can be drawn up to better reflect the balance of power in the Middle East, to better reflect the region's history and cultural and political influences, and to better serve the interests of all the main protagonists.

    b) formal concessions by Israel on allowing at least some symbolic institutions which are not Zionist and exclusivist to represent Palestine as a whole, while keeping Israeli predominance politically, economically, and militarily in the territories. Such formal concessions will be needed for various reasons, including to make the strategic understandings more palatable politically within the region. This part of the issue is keenly understood by Iranian strategists, but often intentionally understated by people like Titra Parsi because they want to first develop the required strategic understanding before touching on more emotional issues.

    If the issues that Iran raises with regard to US/Israeli policy in the Middle East are not properly addressed, the Middle East will never be a stable and peaceful place. And its people will never reach their historic potential either, instead suffering from the failure to properly address the political issues that exist. On the other hand, if the solutions which Iran implicitly endorses are taken up, Israel would find a secure and enduring presence where it belongs in the Middle East as a part of the region and not some artificial foreign creation. At the same time, the region would not serve as a breeding ground for anti-American sentiments, while the security of the world's energy supplies would be better protected and enhanced as well.
     
  21. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    you were doing fine until the bolded part. Iran has not offered any solutions, implicit or explicit, to the ME conflict. Please find me any real evidence of such solutions.
     
  22. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    Its implicit because you cannot find those solutions in any explicit offer that someone can cite, but rather based on the totality of Iranian policies and an understanding of the motivations and factors influencing it. That said, Iran has indeed made some overtures and presented some feelers on these issues in the past. They have thus far been ignored or otherwise rejected by the west.

    Are you willing to accept Israel minus Jerusalem, with Jerasulem as the capital of a symbolic confederation which is dominated politically, militarily and economically by Israel but which carries the name of Palestine? If so, I believe a compromise can be found with Iran on the issue. But Iran has to be involved in finding the solution since otherwise Iran will see any solution as western imposed and a threat to Iran.

    More broadly, aside from Palestine, the Middle East should be drawn up into 3 spheres. There would be a hybrid West-East sphere were Israel and Turkey would play dominant roles as representatives of this hybrid culture. That sphere would resemble in some ways the old Byzantine empire, except the age of empires is long gone. The structures holding the sphere together would be altogether different. Another sphere would be an Iranian sphere, representing more or less the old Iranian territories from the time of the Sassanids and Safavids. Except since the sphere would be drawn up from a grand bargain, the pitfalls and wars that dominated relations between the Sassanids versus Rome/Byzantinium and later the Safavids versus the Ottoman Turks could be avoided. Instead, relations between the West-East sphere and the Iranian one would be formed by emphasizing their common interests and their common cultural proclivities, which are much. The last sphere would be a sunni Arab sphere, centered in the Arabian peninsula and to include the sunni parts of Iraq and Jordan. This sphere can continue to be ruled by what are essentially western imposed satraps until its impulses mature.

    The changes required appear to be too big a bite to handle, but they are actually easily within sight if they were not resisted by US/Israeli policies.
     
  23. HerthaBerwyn

    HerthaBerwyn Member+

    May 24, 2003
    Chicago
    Superpowers, were it at the moment, will always seek to prevent the rise of regional hegemons. We have destabilized into anarchy two countries on Irans borders. It is only natural for Iran to attempt to restabilize them under their terms. No one wants chaos next door. It always comes knocking in the middle of the night. The US, even if unable to stabilize Iraq/Afghanastan, will also attempt to prevent Iran from doing the same. We will prefer regional chaos to Iranian regional hegemony. If we need to break things to do it we will.

    Sorry for the earlier levity.
     
  24. daisrael

    daisrael Red Card

    Sep 20, 2006
    Dayton
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you going to start with that stupid confederation nonsense again? As for Israel without Jerusalem, keep dreaming. Why would they give up a city that Jews founded?

    As for Iran, they should worry more about what goes on inside their own borders, seems they have enough problems internally instead of worrying about Israel.
     
  25. odessit19

    odessit19 Member

    Dec 19, 2004
    My gun safe
    Club:
    AC Milan
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    See, I honestly don't belive for a second that Iran or most Iranians care much for Palestinians, they didn't for the first 30-50 years of Israel's existence and were even "freinds" during one time or another, but when certain extremists came to power, then this whole bs began.
    Iran could easily be a power without screwing up Lebanon or Israel. Also, you have to understand that Israel will always be a power in the ME, yet they can do so with Iran as another secure power. What you're suggesting, implicitly and explicitly AGAIN, is beyond realistic, beyond, racist and even you can't possibly believe that Israel would totally give up everything Jews fought and died for just so Iran can become a hegemonial super power in the ME. I mean, be serious for one and stop with your wacky assertions. Maybe Iran needs to address their own domestic issues first and stop wasting $ on Hamas, Hezbollah and others who are screwing up any kind of peace that could be in the region.
     

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