I think Pope would be a great addition to the Rapids. I'd rather see someone on the other side of the field in offense, like Guevara, being traded for Pablo. However, Pope is a fair trade I think. Overall I think losing Pablo from the midfield would hurt the Rapids and I want a second round draft pick with Pope.
Rapidsfan.com has an update on the Pope-Pablo rummors. It says Pope plus either Ricardo Clark or Mark Lisi would come over for Pablo. If we could get Pope and Clark I'd be happy. He's been a solid midfielder and has an entire career ahead of him. He could take Pablo's spot in the D-Mid role. I don't know as much about Lisi.
to get a high draft pick from Metrostars would entail waiting until 2006 maybe 2007 (they have something like a 5th only next year). Pope would be a good pick up, but he had a bad year. He might be slowing down or have nagging injuries. With Kotschau and Borchers, it's one of the few positions I think the Rapids are set at (Cannon, Crawford, and Mastro being the others, maybe Cila). I haven't seen Borchers on the left, but Lewis is obviously to me not the makings of a MLS Cup winning team's left back. Lisi is a good passer, but not too fast. Metrostars had a logjam in the midfield this year with Lisi, Clark, and Gilberto (to go with Guevera, Gaven, Magee). Neither Clark nor Lisi got the playing time they would on most any other team. Lisi will never be a great player. Clark might be a solid national teamer in a couple of years, but he's not yet meeting expectations. I'd be suspicious of why Metrostars want to dump Pope for Agoos. Giving Mastroeni for Clark is a downgrade for at least a couple of years, but past that would be a good move. With so many holes, I'd rather not approve such a trade. Clark and Magee would better fit the current holes on the team unless Borchers would be best suited at left back. Then it'd be a risk to count on Pope to remain healthy and at his form from a year ago. Add in another player and it'd get interesting (Magee, Clark, and Pope).
Pope would be a good pick up, but he had a bad year ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- umm... imo he would not be a good replacement for pablo no matter who they tack on.. i can't believe that they would even think of getting rid of our best player for has been and injury prone player. what are they thinking.... they certainly could get other players like si if they waive powell, roberts, and the cubans...
Could a Pablo for Pope trade be our comeuppance for the Chung for Celo deal??? That scares me... Greenie, send out the hounds, I want more information...
I like the trade if Clark is included. I think that at times he has underperformed, but at the end of the year I thought he was playing very well. He looks like he could have a good future. I think swedcrip34 had the right deal Magee, Clark, Pope. I would be happy, well not upset, with that trade, but I just don't see the Metros agreeing to give up that much.
I'd do it for Pope, Clark, and Vaca. Pope when un-injured is tried and true, and has several years ahead of him. He's 30, I believe, and there's no reason why he can't lead the defense for the next 5 years. If anybody missed Fraser this season, then they shouldn't say Eddie's past it. Clark and Vaca are two midfielders who are good, young, and coming off of a sub-par season with the Mutts. Both could be good additions to the Rapids. That would be a lot of bang for the buck. Now if we could get somebody to take Zizi and Powell in return for a warm bucket of pee, we'd be in business.
But did you see Eddie Pope THIS year? It's a little concerning. How MANY subpar seasons is Vaca coming off of? I'm not sure there's a position on the field he's ready to contribute to a competitive team. Maybe right mid but I'm not sure he's much better than Henderson. He seems years away if ever being the decent attacking mid I figured he'd be by NOW. If the press is to be believed, Zizi and Powell don't have guaranteed contracts for next year. Now is the time to get out of those and negotiate way down (or let go). If there's actually a chance to get a good SI, let them go. I'm sure fans on the other forums will deliver you the bucket if you really must.
I believe that Lisi is a Colorado native. I still think that any trade for Pablo is a bad trade. He's one of the most experienced players on the field, has strong leadership, and has a locker room presence (I hear).
Vaca is only 22. He is considered a great prospect in the league. Once he has the right combination of teamates and manager, he'll be a good player in this league. He's shown great creativity and has 27 points since joining MLS is 2001. That is more then can be said for our young midfielders; Beckerman (10 career points), Trembly (6 career points) and Crawford (8 career points). If Vaca and Pope came in a deal I'd be happy as we'd finally have someone who can attack in the center of the field and a solid central defender.
........Pablo will be sporting the gold and green in 2005! As a G fan I will welcome him with open arms. Good luck in LA Pablo, I can't wait to cheer for ya!
.......uhh....what.....(yawn) I just had this dream that pablo was running circles around the bastard Chivas players and would you believe he was on the Galaxy?........... .........one can dream right?
Players I've written off in the past: Henderson, Reyna, Armas, Jones,... We didn't get Chung because he was performing stellarly at the Metrostars. There are players who are just good, and you have to allow to get healthy, then there are guys who aren't that you write off. I think Pope is in the get well crowd, and on the Rapids I thing Powell and Zizi are in the get lost. Also, did you ever notice the other defenders around Pope? The Rapids gave up 32 goals last year, the Metrostars 49. Yeah, Cannon was great, but I think our backline was damn good, even though it seems to be getting worse as the off-season goes on, at least in BS world. Pope had an off year, but if you look at the Metrostars roster how many of those guys would you consider solid defenders even if Pope was healthy? I like a back line with Pope, Borchers, Kotschau, and x. I don't like a midfield without Mastro unless we get something in return Vaca and Clark would be pretty fair.
I mostly agree. For the USMNT sake I definitely want to agree (don't want to see another Agoos 02 type situation). But I'm just saying there's some risk in such a move. In my mind I've started to move Vaca into the "was" a good prospect category. He's falling so short of my expectations. I know a-mids develop later (Beckerman/Martino anyone). But by 22 y/o shouldn't we have seen more if he's going to be a good player in this league? And I wouldn't use Beckerman/Trembly as a comparison. Being more productive than them says almost nothing.
BTW I might add that I would be absolutely stunned to find that the Metrostars have traded Pope. Their past years GA is atrocious. Getting Agoos and putting him next to Pope in the middle gives them a strong pairing with a good GK behind them. Their GF was the highest in the league. My guess is they'd like to improve the GA while maintaining the GF.
Lisi & Clarke are replacable in a day, Pope is a little harder (but then Columbus got Fraser pretty easily....). I think this deal stinks for Colorado. Please make it not so.....If we really want Pope, I'll be we can get him for someone else, eh? RLH
Apparently the cancer wasn't just in the brains of this organization, it's spread to the bones as well. With the Wonder Twins gone how in the hell could anybody left in the front office seriously consider trading our only "name" player for a player who will probably retire as soon as he's traded here?
I like Vaca as a player. But you don't want him. He is not a central midfielder, not in MLS. The game in MLS is simply too physical for him and defenders get away with too much for him to be effective. He has greta tools, is a good passer and has a great shot. He just deosn't fit well in MLS right now. He could be a good central midfielder in Central America just not in this league. He is very effective on the right wing however he loses the ball stupidly too often. I he is used right he can be very useful. A fair trade would be Pope, Magee and Lisi. You get Lisi who is a great passer but a defensive liability and Magee who will be a career MLS player and has a great future as an attacking midfielder. He plays the game more with his head than anything. Magee runs his mouth entirely too much but I would hate to lose him. I was always hoping that somehow chicago would trade Mapp for Magee straight up (yeah right). But like I said I was trying to be fair.
A fair trade would be Pope, Magee and Lisi. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- this is NOT a fair trade. a fair trade would be a national team player for him not three players that have been hurt alot.
The only palyer who has been hurt alot is Pope and he is a national team player. Lisi has one injury his whole career and is a very good creative midfielder as is Magee. Expalin to me where they have been hurt a lot. I assume both these players would be upgrades to anything you have now. I don't see how it matter whether you get a national team player or not as long as you get quality.
My point was that i want quality equal to pablo and a national team player would be that IMO i do not think it is an even trade... At this time on the rapids we can't afford to trade Pablo for maybe players that will help right away.... I just do not see it with these 3 for pablo... Mike Magee 22 18 1536 3 4 10 30 15 0 23 38 58 4 0 8 M Mark Lisi 11 8 695 0 4 4 14 5 0 10 9 2 2 0 23 D Eddie Pope 22 22 1928 0 0 0 10 5 2 17 13 0 1 0
So who is this national teamer you have in mind? I don't see anyone in MLS who fits that bill that anyone would want to trade. I also don't see why you seem to believe that only a national teamer is fair value. For a team that has trouble creating offense I don't see how that is not a fair trade. Especially considering that both Pope and Pablo will miss basically the same number of games. He might be the center of the franchise for Colorado but I don't think other teams will hold a non offensive player in such high esteem. I think you might be overestimating his value somewhat. No doubt he is a terrific player. But I don't see who this national teamer is that will be traded for Pablo.
I don't want this trade, but we need to be real about Pablo. Pablo doesn't show a lot of offensive vision, his nat team assist was a rare exception. He's a destroyer, and a damned good one. He's also been card prone, and not a great performer for the Rapids. At this point Pablo should we wishing for a career like Pope's had. Even with the national team he's less of a sure starter then Pope. Popes won in MLS, he's been a mainstay for the US for 10 years now. He wouldn't hurt the Rapids. That said the parts of the puzzle don't help. Lisi, Magee, Clark and Vaca are all uneven players. Magee seems a little like the second coming of Trembley. Lisi has had a few games where he just about broke through, and then disappeared for the rest of the season. I just don't like this trade at the moment. From the Metros point of view it makes sense. They get a d-mid to work along side Guevara. They dump two players that haven't quite made it past the journeyman stage. Getting Guevara and Mastro together in midfield would help the Metros a lot. Why they'd trade Pope for Agoos is beyond me. The big issue this trade presents is it simply improves our defense (assuming Pope's healthy). While I don't think that's a bad thing I'm sort of anxious to see Pablo become a performer for us, and improve our defense some other way. I think Pablo's got short comings, but as with a lot of players on this team I'm anxious to see him play for Fernando. If he can put it together for the Rapids consistently the way he's played a few national team games, then we'll be better. Some of these guys have been getting a pass, because Hankinson stunk so bad. As far as I'm concerned Fernando will be getting some lea way, and the players are the ones who need to start showing up.
I don't see how you could be more wrong. 1. Clark and Magee have been in the league two years with the same team. Vaca has been in the league 4 years, three with one team one with another. Lisi has been with two teams for two year each. How can these players be considered journeymen? 2. Lisi was out injured almost the whole year that is why he "disappeared". 3. This is not about getting Matro to play beside Guevarra it is about getting him to play alongside Clark behind Guevarra so that Amdo doesn't have to track back as often. No. It also gives you two young palyers who know how to pass the ball. I am rally curious what people wfrom Coloradow ould like to see traded in exchange for Pablo. I think people are overvaluing him because he is a national team player.
i guess most of you outsiders don't get the point i am making... I don't want to trade pablo period..... we want to keep pablo ... someone on another site said that the metros tried to trade pope to chicago and they said that they were not interested.. imo we are not interested either.. end of story to me