...good - someone that agrees with me. Don't look at this as a bad result guys. I missed the match as I had a game. When I heard the result, it hurt, but I felt better soon afterward. I am sticking to my guns. This was the best possible result that we should have got. Now we can concentrate on our league form. We should also look into ways of blackmailing Rasiak so that that scarecrow never plays again. I got a text after the match from a goon team mate - George Parnerou. It read; "2005 Grimsby, 2006 Leicester, oh dear, oh my, you can wave the Cups goodbye...Champions League, you're having a laugh!" To which I replied; "2 b honest, I wanted us 2 go out so as 2 concentrate on us gaining 4th spot ahead of u. C u 2moro mate" To which he had no reply. Guy's, do you know how hard it is to shut up Parnerou??!! It's damn impossible! But he realised I was right, so he had no reply. Please let's move on from this.
Ho hum. Never mind. That game should have been out of sight after going 2-0 up. I would like to say we were beaten by the crowd and that tap in just before half time, but really that's not true. We were beaten, again in cup comps, by a late goal when there's no time to come back. I swear it was offside, but having switched over at the final whistle i don't know for sure. Another thing, i don't feel particularly annoyed to have gone out of the cup. Same with the carling cup earlier this season, either it's not real or it's not as important as maintaining form in the league. This means we have weeks off when others play, less games and a very narrow focus now. Maybe it's a good thing.
At least we you can focus on the league Thats the magic of the FA cup We had chances but they didn't happen for us Good Luck to Leicester and I hope they go far Any other generic early cup exit statements?
Your second paragraph makes a lot more sense than the first. After all, Everton ultimately was not very much helped by their performance last year. All they did was get 4th in the league and did not even make it to Champions League. They bowed out in what was called Champions League Qualifiers. Teams that show any semblance of success in Champions League are generally good cup teams AND good league teams. A team with Tottenham's luxuries in squad depth needs to aspire to more than 4th place in the league as a measure for a successful season. A deep cup-run against fanatical lower-league and lesser Premiership sides is good training for the types of matches that you will encounter in Champions League and UEFA Cup. Sure European sides are more technical, but the fan environment and level of theater of European night require a team that can raise its playing level under pressure. That is an expectation that Spurs fans must have. Especially when it comes to preparing for UEFA Cup and Champions League Qualifying. England's coefficient demands that we avoid more Evertonian debacles. Plus, taking an early exit and getting thoroughly out-classed in Europe can have a demoralizing effect on a team and can make top players lose interest in sticking it out with the team (that is how we really lost Michael Owen). More generally - what has happened to your defense? They were so good for the first 1/3 of the season. Recently - not-so-much. I guess we would be lost without Carra at the back, and you lot have been missing Ledley King that much. Mainly though, you have got to get back to solid defending as a team. Some of your players don't seem to be picking each other up as they should. I am really looking forward to our match on Saturday (not because I think it is going to be easy for the Reds). I think it is going to be a good measuring stick for both sides regarding where we really are in the ranks of the premiership. Playing Bolton away was part I of a pretty tough "mid-term" exam. Playing Tottenham at home is a great test of our ability to play a strong attacking side. We really have not faced one in quite some time in League play (considering how miserable Jekyll-and-Hyde Newcastle were).
Really? Seems like the European champions lost in the same round of the FA Cup last season. Why does Everton's not making it to the Champions League group stage prove that its not advantageous to make have good league form? It did help Everton finish 4th in the league, did it not? I thought that was the point being made in this instance. Whether it helps you not draw Villareal in the qualifier is a different matter I would think. I'm pretty sure that they would have drawn Villareal whether or not they went further in Cup competitions. If we can miraculously finish 4th, it would be better for our club than making a run into the FA Cup or League cup semis or even final. It would bring some legitimacy to the building program at Tottenham, and we could bring in some more players to help us. So if bombing out helps us qualify for UCL, then I would welcome it. Now, whether it helps or not with that goal is debatable. I certainly think that we can now trim our squad size this winter with fewer competitions this spring, though.
don't forget the perennial "well, that was embarassing. but at least we're not managed by graeme souness."
....that's the best kept secret in Football. You see, he doesn't manage, he complains, and not to the Chronicle anymore either. R.I.P. G.S.
Its a funny old game. I was as sick as a parrot. Why was Gardner looking like a beaten man at 2-2? The lad is just pants. Stephen Kelly...Westahhmm here I come! Rubbish!
I never say a player becomes bad just because he's had one bad game. But I had been thinking all this time why Martin wasn't giving him his chance. The answer to that was abundantly obvious to all of us. This pushes up my trust threshold in Martin Jol even more now.
...its Tuesday morning and i can only just bring myself to writing. What a fecking joke Tony Gardner is???? He was getting man handled by a player who had not scored for 13 fecking games, and as for Elvis Hammond the player who scored their second he hadn't found the net that season basically. Total shambolic defence imo lost it for us, it was making me cringe watching Gardner tyring to get into De Vries pants. Martin please take note, bring back big Tom, even Davenport can't be worse. Also I know everyone is laying the blame at Rasiaks door, yes he's not good enough for Spurs. But I actually thought he played ok. It must be hard to get a partnership going when you never play. My scapegoats would be Gardner and Kelly. They were both woeful.
And made it to the final of the League Cup. Which we have made a habit of doing over the past few years. Really, if you want to define Liverpool as a poor cup team (I mean over the past 5 - 10 years) be my guest. But it would be a hard argument to make. And Liverpool really did grow into a greater Premiership force under Houllier by first learning how to get it done in cups. The year before we went to Champions League in earnest, we won three (3) cup competitions and still managed Champions League placement (4th) in the year. It served us well, as we were then able to improve our league position again the subsequent year (and the year after that), even as we made it deep into the Champions League (through two group stages) in 2001 – 2002. Rafa got to two (of three) cup finals in his first season and now Liverpool is staging as much of a title challenge as an “organically constituted” team is able to in this era. Even though we are playing (this season) as many matches as ANY club has played in the modern era (full Champions League qualifying schedule, Super Cup, Champions League, EPL, League Cup, FA Cup, World Club Championships, etc). Bowing out of one cup prematurely here and there is not a big deal. But I don't think that it is prudent to say "Let's just concentrate on the league - that will be the secret to our success." Not in this era, at least. Everton's fourth place finish was a result that flattered the overall quality of the team. It was a great achievement – I am not trying to take it away from them. But in all honesty, I would rather place fifth and build the team overall so that it is ready for an iterative improvement the following season than throw everything into the fire for a flattering fourth place position and be completely unprepared the season that follows. I am afraid that the latter scenario is exactly where Everton finds themselves now. They got very little benefit from their fourth place finish. The results so far? A gut-wrenching tie in Champions League, followed by a humiliating UEFA Cup “run”, followed by a struggle in the relegation zone. Also, they struggled in the transfer market, squad players got big raises and they have virtually no extra money to show for the entire experience. It would be better for Spurs to build up gradually for additional and far more demanding competitions, by making the most of their current opportunities. This path allows your club to build depth through experience and hone your ability to focus on must-win games, which is what cup competitions do. Even if your league form suffers a tiny bit and it means you "only" make it to UEFA Cup based on league placement this year, you may very well be better-prepared for an onward and upward and higher season the year after that and then the year after that. Besides, it is not necessarily a zero-sums game, where playing x fewer cup games = greater league form. I don’t have to tell Spurs fans that a great cup run can have a huge impact on a squad. I just don’t see how your team could benefit from modeling yourselves after Everton. Granted you have more money available then they do and have a better foundation for European competition. You have more squad depth and greater quality. But so did Newcastle (3 seasons ago) and they have been through the wringer after qualifying for Champions League a few years running, and yet not being ready institutionally for the enormous demands that regular European competition places on a club. As hard as it is to qualify for European competition, history shows (over the life of the Premier League at least) that it is even harder for teams to become perennial continental challengers without bankrupting themselves – or at the very least suffering grave sporting or financial setbacks. Everton, Leeds, Newcastle, Chelsea (pre-Abramovich) and even teams from other countries (Real Betis, Celta Viga, etc) prove this year after year. Once you get to “the top”, players will no longer be satisfied with a bare Premiership wage as most of them currently are at Spurs (almost all of your first team players are on wages around £10k - £20k, right? You can start forgetting about that). Such players will get very tetchy if you do not perennially qualify for such competitions. Their past continental experience will make them more attractive to other clubs, so you will have more pressure to sell in “off” years when they are not cup-tied. Especially considering how young and potential-laden your side is. You will see transfer fees rise as teams expect you to pay out like a big, big club instead of just a big club. Other Premier League teams will not see you as a mere team on the rise, but will focus on you as a target to beat in the league and will be especially motivated when they play you (playing more negatively for the result and making it harder for you to break them down – even sullying the footballing aesthetics of the match) on a regular basis. Performing like a big club is a lot different than being a big club on the outside and looking in. It requires a lot more preparation than most teams are willing to realize. I am sure that Spurs have the capacity to be very successful at this level if they work up to it – but I would caution you against a philosophy of putting all your eggs in one basket only to find yourself with a much bigger basket than you can fill the next season. You can dismiss this as so much drivel if you like, but I think you will find that Liverpool fans do have a lot of insight into the challenges involved with staying involved in the highest competitive levels of club football even when they are unable to win the domestic league (i.e. be the biggest man on campus). Clubs like Spurs and Liverpool that are not commercial powerhouses the way that Manchester United and Chelsea (only recently of course) are have to be much more circumspect about how they pursue this course. It is not inconceivable that clubs like 'Pool and Spurs could win the EPL again, but we must be careful not to let the huge salary expense of maintaining a club with a Continental reputation put the club's overall health (sporting or financial) in jeopardy. We may be seeing this very situation happening on the other side of North London.
But I think the key in all those examples is that teams got carried away trying to WIN the continental competition, rather than being satisfied getting to them. If the management takes a pragmatic approach to European competition, it cannot be a bad thing. If they lose their minds and start throwing around money in a desperate attempt to be European contenders, then it would be a bad thing. Also, it would show that they aren't paying attention to the Champions League results, in which often lackluster teams make big runs, and your fate is truly about the luck of the draw, and whether you can score a goal on the road. The point is, if Tottenham is going to be the kind of club that the fans want it to be (growing and successful), we're going to have to take this step eventually. And I don't see how waiting to make a run in the League Cup will help our chances of not cracking under the increased pressure. That seems, to me, a random concern. Now, if you're saying that the team is not quite ready for European competition (a concern unrelated to our sorry performance in the FA Cup and Carling Cup), then you might be right. They are still young, and the summer would involve plugging holes up front, at left wing, and probably replacing both fullbacks. Luckily we would have slightly more money to accomplish all of that. ALso, all those things need to happen before we'll be the sort of side that is truly competitive again. So, Champions League or no Champions League we have to make these changes. All of the things that you're predicting to happen will happen as soon whenever we qualify for this competition. Whether it happens now or two years from now, it will be a massive step up for the side, so lets just go for it and see if we can take it. And who said anything about patterning ourselves after Everton? Just saying that not making a cup run can help you maintain your league form. They went to the champions league, and we would also like to go to the Champions League, although I'm hoping we don't draw Villareal in the qualifier. After that, the desire to be like Everton ends. And like you said, they had neither the financial backing, nor that foundation of talent that we possess. So if we keep our wits about us, and avoid the Neville signing rampage next summer, we could really turn this to our benefit. Although, this is all premature. We've got a lot of work to do to make this happen. But your rainclouds won't make me stop wanting it.
It absolutely was offside, but I'm not all that annoyed by it either. What annoys me is that we don't spend the last minutes of each game (and stoppage time) in the other team's end. The best way to hold onto the scoreline is to keep possession in the other end. Remember West Ham? Stoppage time should have expired, but it didn't, and we lost two points. Similar circumstance with Leicester. I could cry about offsides, but I'd be missing the point, which is that we should be able to control our own destiny that late in the game. I hope Jol kicks some arse(s) on this subject.
it WASN'T offside im afraid. they did that stupid technology thing on it after the game. dickhead salteri played him onside.
well when they did that technology with the line the ball hadnt been kicked. I think with rules on benefit of the doubt it should have counted.... But what about that penalty offence on Jenas? Clearest penalty I've seen in a long time and we don't even get a corner. I'd rather get hard done by the officials in this match than in the Premiership though and the players should have been good enough to win anyway. We've been poor in every cup competition with Jol so far. He's picked up winning in the league early enough, but hasn't adjusted to the domestic cups yet. I suppose it is important to bear in mind he hasn't had a full season in charge yet. I'm sure he'll get it, like he figured out winning away from home after we were struggling with it last season.
What are you trying to say???? That some super-slow-mo-computer-technology thing is better than my angle from my couch while I was drinking pints?? Absurd!! I demand that your post be stricken from the record.