I am in dire need of some assistance here. Klinsmann who was charged to assist TFC find their "brain-trust" among other things remarked today that they needed to find a football system that suited the characteristics of TO, the community and its fan base. They opted for "total football" and therefore made the astute decision to recruit from the cradle of "Total Football" IMO - Amsterdam. MLS&E then hired Aron Winter and some other dude from Ajax's academy. Great decision! They're good footie minds and their emphasis as coaches will be on skill. Awesome! What perplexes me however IS how does total football fit into MLS? Last time I checked, and I am an avid follower of football all over the planet, the core ingredient of "total football" is players with good feet (ie) TALENT. Being that talent is a scarce commodity in MLS, how will TFC adopt this style and b) how will it be received throughout MLS in a league which places an emphasis more on speed and athleticism than football accumen and talent? Let's not forget here we have no talent on this squad. JDG is probably the only one with decent feet and the other is our goalie. Where does De-Ro or Me-Ro fit into this? God knows his 1-dimensional style CANNOT fit into a rhombus style of team-oriented play which is essential in the style FC dutch want to implement. Granted, as a PR move and to appease the novice football fans in this great city of ours this decision is brilliant short term because if sold properly they will buy into this "long term project" with the promise of entertaining football. Winter only signed on for only 3 years though. Ideally this concept is wonderful and a perfect sell to a disgruntled fanbase. Optically though, I cannot see how it can possibly work judging the talent pool in MLS and specifically, our team to execute this style of play. When such a heavy reliance of "total football" is on skill.
From their remarks at the press conference today, it seems to me that they're well aware that they can't simply transplant everything Ajax into TFC and have it work in MLS's "less polished" (to put it politely) style of football. Remember that one of the three introduced today has MLS experience with a successful club, and I'm sure that's intentional. This is indeed something of an experiment in trying to marry the two. It could go bust and leave TFC fans further agitated, or it could be a great boon that brings us many years of success, and perhaps even influences the entire league into a better style of game. It could end up somewhere in the middle. I see your point, but I think it's worth a go. It can't be any worse than what we've endured so far.
De Rosario, De Guzman, Maicon Santos. These three to me seem ready to fit into a Total Football system after a little bit of practice. Apparently they're bringing in some Dutch players from Dayton Dutch Lions as well, and let's not forget; you can teach foot work. Drill it into your squad well enough and they'll do it. We may sacrifice a bit of our normal preseason focus on fitness in exchange for more tactical sessions, but if the payoff is a squad that can pass circles around the other clubs in MLS, I say what odds?
Well said Soyred. I had the same discussion with a friend the other day. To play "total football" you need technical ability, something the current squad has little of. I feel what they're likely going to do is simplify the system a lot, total football light. Hence why the youth team coach was hired. He will use the same style that a bunch of Dutch kids can understand with MLS pros.... as they're probably at the same talent level! Also, am I the only one who finds it odd that a German hired a bunch of Dutch guys?
Strange but predictable. Tactically you can't hire Klinsmann as an advisor to overhaul the dynamic of the current team and not expect something like this. Strange ze german is involved but it's a quick fix IMO. They executed a marketing strategy MLSE style and have the most "desired" tactical ideal as it's baseline to sell. "Total Football" is not practical for TFC. To play it they'd have to overhaul a huge chunk of this team and find a new core group. A group with talent for starters. Apart from the salary cap concerns in MLS and all the other stupid rules, to use the analogy; you'd essentially have to teach Russian-style-talent-based-hockey to the Leafs and have them execute the system with their current group. Or a 3rd/4th line group of pluggers on any other decent team. I agree whole heartedly with you that they'd have to dumb this down conceptually for it to have a chance. As a man with any sort of football acumen and knowledge of how MLSE works, this reeks of a total marketing blitz to appease the disenchanted SSHs group, fans, as well as the casual who's looking for something to support in the summer (though I use the expression loosely because the Jays are probably this city's only shot at something short & long term...) Ideally it sounds wonderful but I don't thnk it's practical in MLS especially in the term these guys are speaking of. Hopefully they prove me wrong but if there's anything these guys atleast will bring is some football insight and an avenue to go forward for their future sucessors in this organization. Hopefully.
I don't want to seem like a cynic but I approach this with a wait and see sort of attitude. I am excited by some of the football minds surrounding the club at the moment (inc. Klinsmann) and hopefully all this experience will resonate with the organization. But I'm skeptical of the style. One thing is for certain, I am loving Mariner in our organization. He's huge in terms of MLS practicality.
So were Preki and Mo. The point isn't who knows the MLS it's who knows soccer. Given time to learn the ropes anybody can handle the salary caps and other rules that MLS has that are not common elsewhere. Being a man manager, a strong tactician, and a leader who players will listen to are the important qualities. And it appears we've got them.
Im not expecting "total football" of the 70s and 80s from a remarkable group of dutch footballers to take over BMO, but im guessing the "style" Winter incorporates will be less of hoofing the ball from the back to the front and see what happens and more of a system. I can only hope they recognize the need to move through the midfield and will work on those concepts as well as basic Euro centric concepts through a full training camp and if guys like Dero or whoever cannot adapt or willing to adapt then see ya later. Take the talent that is there and reduce it to the basic concepts of playing this game properly which doesnt include defense long ball to short forwards.
Good discussion. I'm all for the Dutch influence. The transition won't be easy with the current roster, overcoming Johnston's ineptitude in terms of talent acquisition combined with contracts is going to take more than 1 off-season. I would agree that for the most part Winter/Mariner will be trying to fit square pegs in round holes when they start camp later this month. Winter/Mariner have to start somewhere, so let the re-build begin. Introduce the new tactics, strategies, etc., and implement with the current roster. Existing players will either play their way in or out of Winter's system. The newly recruited players obviously will be adaptable, some should be the core players, others will be for support and depth. I'm willing to watch 2011 become a development season but I expect to see improvement as the season progresses - ie, no more long ball, possession, width, and a consistent shape. More movement on-and-off the ball versus the pedestrian styles of Johnston & Preki.
If these guys know how to recognize talent, players will be there. Soccer is played professionally worldwide, there is no shortage of players. Four years of Mo has soured our optimism.
What you're missing is that I've identified these guys know football and I am not questioning whether they are good communicators or not. What I am questioning is whether their style is practical with MLS considering the terribly dilluted talent pool. More importantly, how crap we are. I am not trying to be a cynic I am just being realistic. I have seen teams try to incorporate this style only to fall flat on their faces. Teams with reserve teams far more technically sound than the first team we support every saturday. Let's be honest with ourselves, this is more a marketing ploy than a practical way to win in MLS.
I haven't missed anything. The players on our squad have the required talent and fitness to play at the professional level, and they know soccer too. A good coach can teach a system. Will we see immediate results? No. However, when you spend the entire season drilling a squad on one type of soccer, the ones who can't perform will identify themselves fairly quickly. Replace them and you're set. It may be sloppy, choppy, and inconsistent at first, but as time goes on we'll see a Total Football type of system take shape at BMO. The fact is that we won't be getting instant gratification out of this deal, and to my eyes that speaks to its longview character, and shows that it isn't just some marketing ploy. This move is a practical way to win in MLS, because we're going with a group that has vision and know-how. Who have a plan of action that differs from every other MLS club, and I can guarantee that if they aren't playing a system like this, they'll have a hell of a time preparing to defend against it.
I would've been happy with "We're going to start playing the ball to the wings once in awhile". That alone would be a substantial improvement than what they were doing last season, even early on when they showed signs of success. It may not be the most talented group but if someone teaches them how to use the entire field to spread out the opposing defenders, it doesn't matter whether it's a Dutch, Brazilian or American style, they will be better than last year.
They did say at the press conference the other day it would take 3 years. I just hope they have enough patience to not pull the trigger when things are going bad before those 3 years are up.
Really. I think the main point of this move will have a greater impact on the academy that anywhere else - and that will take seasons to truly impact the first team. Ultimately you need to have a team made up of youngsters that get the system and are able to perform to their best ability in said system - this move will pay dividends over time and will have less than immediate impact on the first team where it will be a bit of a round hole square peg situation. Will this mean a focus on possession and passing on the first team? Sure. Will it spell the end of long ball and direct play? Probably not (at least not initially). The questions that I'm most interested in are: will this work long term? Will we be able to sell-on more prospects and academy graduates? How will this allow us to compete in MLS? Will it give us a strategic advantage through sales of players generating allocation funds? Will MLSE stick with this to reap the rewards?
Patience is the key here, total football didn't develop in the Netherlands overnight. Don't expect the existing team to suddenly dominate the league in a couple of years, the key here is the youth academy and the style of play there carries over with the kids as they move into the senior team replacing the senior players one by one. Until then recruiting Sr players who are already that style will have to do.
not really much of what the Germans do in player development was copied from the dutch. And that can be extended to the very strong dutch influence at Barcelona and then to Spain as well as most of the Spanish WC squad were from Barcelona.
I don't think employing a modified version of Total Football at TFC (even with the current roster) is too lofty a goal. My understanding of Total Football is that the team is structured to allow one or two creative players to roam the pitch freely, confident in the fact that their outfield teammates will be able to "fill the gaps" positionally as a result. The current TFC roster already has a number of players who are both versatile and competent enough to play various positions. Ones that initially come to mind are Chad Barrett (forward, winger, attacking mid), Dan Gargan (winger, fulback, holding mid), Nick Labrocca (winger, holding mid), Nicholas Lindsay (forward, winger, attacking mid), Julian Deguzman (holding mid, attacking mid) and, of course, Dwayne Derosario (forward, winger, attacking mid). The current roster also contains a number of players who are energetic and like to press and challenge for the ball (Dero, Barrett and Santos especially). Also, all the players on the pitch know how to get back and defend (as was witness ad nauseum last season with Preki at the helm). I think that if a system can be implemented whereby these players know when to take up a different position and also feel confident in their teammates "filling the gaps" as required, we'll see some exciting games and good results.
One thing should be very clear to those that arenot used to the Dutch/Barcelona academy systems. These academies select at the gate very (8-10 years) young players that are viewed to have it in them (after growing up already in the 4-3-3 ideology) to join their academies. Of these less than 10% will ever make it into the first team. So to have about 5 players from your academy in the 1st team it will take about 60 to 70 kids (and that's without allowing for the fact that these kids have no background in 4-3-3 to start with) to accomplish that. So I wouldnot bet on the academy thing for the next 3 years.
Good points - I think three years is the earliest we would see any players graduate in this style - realistically we'd be looking at 10 for any meaningful transformation.
yes it's a long process but it pays dividends to have players grow up in the system and form the heart of the club...the club will still recruit from outside but not to the extent other clubs will need to...
three years if the academy has recruited well...every year after the system is in place the club becomes stronger...