This article talks about them building an outdoor, grass surface field in Toronto. http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonSports/es.es-11-07-0087.html
FIFA paid for the architectural plans for the stadium? Strikes me as bizarre. Then again, it's FIFA we're talking about here.
I was just going to mention this here. A 30,000 seat soccer stadium in Toronto would be huge, and I seriously doubt that MLS would pass up that kind of an opportunity. A mostly Canadian team there would draw really well, IMO. They could sort of be the Canadian National Club team. You'd have to clear the FIFA nation-share issue, but I think it would be done.
A toronto expansion team and the interleague games with MFL could make for an interesting CONCACAF soccer environment
Ahh, Toronto. As a frequent visitor to the city, both in the context of playing soccer and in sampling the finest diversions the town has to offer, I've really been intrigued by the possibility of top-flight expansion. Toronto is obviously a hockey town, but the passion that exists for soccer is manifest -- the city has an unparalleled number of full fledged soccer clubs. Not youth teams, mind you - real clubs, like AC Toronto, Vaughn Rockets, Oakville, etc... with vast range and men's league connections and international success. These boys can flat-out play, and there are examples of these in every section of the city and surrounding hamlet. Now, say this stadium thing comes through, and nobody has any reason to believe that it will. Just let's say that the Canadian FA likes this study, and is interested in building this 30K seater for a World Cup bid. There's really no place they could build it that wouldn't be perfect. There are plenty of sites downtown to choose from, and the T-dot has a vibrant, lush, international, urban (soccer-aware, mind you) community that I imagine would support a top-flight team. Of course, you could build it in North York, too, which just happens to be one of the wealthiest enclaves in all of Canada, not to mention populous. Or hey -- there's the southern reaches, and anyone that knows knows that Southern Ontario is 30 mill. strong full of hockey/soccer playing wealthy individuals with amazing infrastructure. FIFA would want it downtown, though, and I agree with that. My point, though, is that an MLS franchise would be likely to find an owner and interest in Toronto, and I believe that fan support would be seen from the entire region. There's a reason the CPSL is concentrated in Ontario -- it's because there's a demand for professional soccer on some level. With SSS being the driving force in profitability and support in North America today, I feel it would be remiss of MLS not to look into what could be a tailor-made scenario for success. -Ben
What opportunity would MLS be passing up, exactly? MLS wants to grow the sport in the United States. To do so, it needs to expand in the United States. It has TV deals with American networks; what good will a Toronto team do for US TV ratings? I have nothing against Canada, and would welcome a Canadian pro league (anything to increase CONCACAF's reputation). I just don't see why MLS would have any interest in expanding there (and we haven't even talked about who would actually own/operate this hypothetical team).
What opportunity?... a new SSS, that's what. Though we keep hearing rumors followed by speculation followed by plans/pix, there don't seem to be ANY cities at this point in time that have broken ground on a new stadium. Period. Zero. Nil. Nada. If a national soccer facility seating 30,000 actually gets built in Toronto and stable ownership can be found, go after it... and I mean AFTER the first shovel hits the ground, not before... MLS: 10 teams... one SSS and another one under construction... countless rumors... STILL no shovels... Anybody gonna build a "soccer-specific" stadium?... Toronto? St.Paul? Edmond/OKC? Frisco, TX? Harrison, NJ? Rochester? Houston? Tulsa? Milwaukee? Cleveland? Philly? Winston-Salem? Portland? Seattle? New Orleans? San Diego? Vancouver? Montreal?... Bueller???
Hmmm, why hasn't FIFA ever done the same for us? Seems to me that the future of MLS lies in getting more SSS. Wouldn't it be in FIFA's best interest to help out with one or more of our stadium projects?
if mls were to expand into toronto how is this for an idea? similar to the Euro Union thing but either americans and canadians dont count against foreign limit,..or maybe have all concacaf players not count against the foreign limit?
The only way I want to see Toronto in MLS is if the US annexes Ontario... Then we'll talk... Otherwise, Let the Canadians (or Canadiens, if you prefer) do it themselves. Canadian soccer will be better for it, trust me.
Even with the tax and exchange rates what they are, I'd think it would be financially beneficial for MLS to put a team in Toronto if they can draw 25,000 and have a decent lease (both of which seem plausible to me). And that is not even counting the gains in media exposure, sponsorships and merchandising that could be added by a successful foray into Canada. Clearly, there will be no avenue into Canada unless there is a stadium (and probably a new owner/operator) - but if there is I just don't think that MLS will pass the opportunity to take on an instantly profitable franchise in a massive market. Whether its good or bad in the long-term for US or Canadian soccer in general is debatable and probably, when it comes down to it, unimportant (although the Canadian nats would surely not be hurt ikn the short-term by having the majority of their team all playing on one club team).
Sorry, but no. One of the main reasons for MLS in the first place was to help the development of the US National Team. Otherwise, why not have Saints Lamar and Phil just recreate the NASL - they certainly have the deep pockets to do it and the crowds would have come both sooner and larger.
Hmmmm. So your theory is that Phil and Lamar, unswayed by the financial masterstroke that was the NASL, purposely chose not to follow that successful business plan and instead create an unprofitable shoestring league in the hope that it might help the US National Team improve its fortunes every four years. I salute you for your expansive imagination. If Toronto can make Phil and Lamar soccer money, I can assure you that they will be there with red canoes on the heads of several junior underlings.
Missed my point, I think... If growing the US National Team wasn't a major part of MLS, then we would have had a larger salary cap and no limitations on international players...in short NASL Deux (the original had no salary cap and it's only roster requirement was that a small number - three, if memory serves - of North Americans had to be on the field at all times)... It would have had the international players the "Eurosnobs" here in this country love to watch on their satellite dish instead of going to their local MLS side...so crowds would have been larger. And this league would have done exactly what the NASL did for the US National Team...zero. Not even having the National Team playing in the NASL as a franchise (anyone out there remember Team America?) helped them qualify for any World Cup during the NASL's existence...something the Canadian federation should think about. Again, I have nothing against Toronto...I love the city. But...MLS is the Division 1 league for the United States...If the Canadian Federation wants to start qualifying for World Cups (especially if that half or whole extra spot for CONCACAF comes about!), then they need their own league, not Toronto/Team Canada playing in MLS.
Originally posted by Bluecat82 Missed my point, I think... Actually, I think you're missing the point in general. If growing the US National Team wasn't a major part of MLS, then we would have had a larger salary cap and no limitations on international players...in short NASL Deux (the original had no salary cap and it's only roster requirement was that a small number - three, if memory serves - of North Americans had to be on the field at all times)... No, "growing the US National Team" was not the prime motivating factor behind a lower salary cap and limitations on foreign players... staying in business was... and STILL IS. ... the argument isn't about the need for development of native players (American... hmmm... why not include Canadian players?... are we THAT scared that they will bump us out in WC qualifying like they did in '86?)... besides, many times the non-American players in MLS are Mexican, Salvadoran, Guatamalan, Jamaican, et. al... those players will surely develop into a "thorn in our sides" during the next WC qualifications thanks to MLS... now tell me, what exactly was the problem with having teams with SSS and stable ownership in Canada? It would have had the international players the "Eurosnobs" here in this country love to watch on their satellite dish instead of going to their local MLS side...so crowds would have been larger. And this league would have done exactly what the NASL did for the US National Team...zero. I hardly consider NASL fans of the past to be your "Eurosnobs" of the present... and I think most of us tend to underestimate the contributions the NASL DID make to American soccer... would Rick Davis have been a better player without having Cosmos players as mentors... I doubt it. Just as today I doubt DaMarcus Beasley would be a better player if he never listened to a seasoned mentor/veteran like Stoichkov?... geez, do you REALLY think the old ASL woulda done such a better job in developing our guys?... "Eurosnobs?"-- back in the 70s?... watching over-the-hill "stars" play on astroturf with the 35 yd line offsides and shootouts didn't exactly appeal to "purists" either... Not even having the National Team playing in the NASL as a franchise (anyone out there remember Team America?) helped them qualify for any World Cup during the NASL's existence...something the Canadian federation should think about. Yes, I DO remember Team America. Maybe you don't. You are mistaking Team America for the National Team. Most of our best national team players refused to play for them. And, strangely enough, it was Canada and not our guys that qualified for WC '86... Again, I have nothing against Toronto...I love the city. But...MLS is the Division 1 league for the United States...If the Canadian Federation wants to start qualifying for World Cups (especially if that half or whole extra spot for CONCACAF comes about!), then they need their own league, not Toronto/Team Canada playing in MLS. Back in the days of the ill-named "North American Soccer League", most of the players were from Europe, not North America... rarely would any team have players from THIS HEMISPHERE! Yet here we are as the "Division 1 league for the United States" watching Ruiz win the cup for the Galaxy. I really hate this "it's OUR league and we're not gonna let anybody else play with our marbles" mentality. No. I don't want ANY teams in Canada if they end up playing in huge stadiums with under 10,000 per game or dilapidated old stadiums either. I just don't at all see why a potential franchise with a 30,000 seat stadium and stable ownership should be anything but welcome in MLS...
Anyone who thinks that TO will work in the MLS is dreaming. Or more likely is on drugs. The cities A-league team is virtually ignored and the CPSL attendance figures don't get past the triple digits. That is, if they get near that level. The Canadian NT hate playing in TO since they tend to be the "away" team. The MLS wouldn't survive. The sports scene in TO is nothing but a joke. The Jays are slowly dying. The Argos are a joke. Not to mention the Arena league team in TO just folded. The lusture of the Raptors is also starting to wear off. Unless it is either lacrosse or hockey, it won't sell.
I'd say that Vancouver and Montreal would probably make better franchises in MLS than Toronto, but... the same kinds of arguments as the post above against Toronto were also made about Los Angeles pre-WC '94 and look at the success the Galaxy have enjoyed in MLS... only NOW getting their new stadium...
LA hosted the Lympics in '84 so that last point is a mute. Canadians don't want to get dragged into the MLS garbage heap.
I enjoy the MLS (watched it for four years while in the US), but it should never expand into Canada. It is an American league, not a North American league. Canada needs to work on getting a Canadian league. The MLS should and will focus on getting more teams in the US.