Top Ten Best Passers Ever

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Dearman, Apr 1, 2010.

  1. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I thought I'd better find an example for Messi
    (But Bada Bing you'll be pleased that I can say I was very impressed with the dribble and right footed cross/assist before the moment I'm picking out:)):

    1:30
    (He is in a lot of space - like I say it happens in a game at some stage but arguably of course closing in on him would be better and also the defence is not set perfectly as I believe he has actually a good opportunity to play the pass earlier ay 1:31 through the D of the penalty area towards the penalty spot for his team-mate who would be onside to run onto).
    That was the first video I looked at to find something.
     
  2. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    That was at 2-0 just before half time, Messi creating the 2-0 just before, so obviously that makes their ranks chaotic.

    That Maradona example were 1-0 at 58 minutes, and Cruyff 0-0 at 50 minutes. Quite a difference.
     
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    BS. It was a throw-in for Granada, they lose a header, are wrongly positioned, and within four seconds it is in the back of their net. It was one of the four goals they conceded due to a massive error.

    The chaos was due to the (badly executed) throw-in.
     
  4. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Irony. I was waiting for similar "creativity" of Messi in last WC QF to Final? and never came!

    You distorted the whole thing!
    Cruyff and Maraodna assist directly to the man who only had 1 DF or just the GK to beat.

    Messi made a nice crossing to a team mate with 2,3 DF in the box blocking his volley on top of the GK waiting!
     
  5. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Would have came if he had the space, time or the teams Maradona, Cruyff and Pele had. 1 of the 3 would've been enough.
     
  6. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    would have Messi carried more heavier ball, running on worse pitch, and constantly surrounded by 2 ,3 DF on his side, on his back KICKED off at will in 70-90?

    You do not compare direct since two scenarios different!
    The IMPORTANT is how that player SURVIVED in his situation

    one thing for sure:
    Maraodona was the MOST FOULED player in history ... (and also at WC)
    Pele at WC66 was similar, he was kicked out of the WC in 2 games (from Bulgarian to Portugal DF)
     
  7. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Easily, Messi does much more nowadays than that.
     
  8. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    EASILY WRONG and USUAL

    Maradona drew 53 fouls in WC1986 > Messi 18 fouls WC2014 (3 times more)
    Maradona drew 36 fouls in WC1982 > Messi 15 fouls in WC2010 (2times more)

    So overall: Maradona had 89 fouls/12 WC games = 3x times *Messi 33 fouls in 12games WC
     
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  9. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Team marking and tactics nowadays are much worse than fouling/diving back then.
     
  10. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #560 JamesBH11, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
    to your limit knowledge ...
    more difficult? BS
    how come there are more FW who could bag near 1GPG in the league (liek Messi and CR7) now then before?

    Ironically all those guys became potent with their NT (different team mates and much less time practice ) just like Messi and CR7!
     
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  11. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    To my knowledge and anyone here can testify:

    Football game is always a game to score the winner goal with 22men on pitch , 11 a side
    Football game never changed the goal post smaller, the pitch bigger, and the ball is same size!
    Football game even facilitates modern players with FULL protection in law (of fouls and dangerous tackles)
    Football game always had 1 coach in each side and 3 ref !

    So why more difficult? if we take all the advantages in to consideration, it will ONLY BECOME easier!
    or just PURE Imagination that it's more difficult over night? !

    Advantages:
    - better jersey, shoes, balls, pitches
    - better training with video camera replay (to learn form elders)
    - better food, schedules, transportation ....
     
  12. SirWellingtonSilva

    May 30, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Messi get a million times bigger advantage for playing in an extremely technical team. In that sense I suppose the pitches are a massive factor, as playing quick high tempo short passes are the key really to opening things up. Which just was not really as practical in the days when putting much pace on a pass inevitably meant it would arrive to your teammates shins or knees, which isn't impossible to play with but tiki taka would be a bit too much to ask for. It's also of course a big factor in agility, making quick turns fluidly with the ball is very much more difficult on surfaces that don't provide a smooth even platform for balance. Then of course is the physical contact, which makes it harder to instigate turns and fancy moves in the first place.

    I guess certain people will always delude themselves about messi being the most marked player in history, despite often being left alone.
     
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  13. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #563 JamesBH11, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
    Exactly so!
    for the tactics, Messi was NEVER being marked out period ...
    The reason:
    1- IT was NOT because he was not great (he is deffinitely) but why not?
    2- Because his team got 10 great men ... to keep opponent busy, so opponents could NOT afford one man to mark Messi!

    ======================================================
    Read more INFO from one of the genius in tactics for the reason:

    Arsène Wenger refuses to man-mark Barcelona's magical Lionel Messi

    Arsène Wenger, however, says it would be wrong for Arsenal to change their approach specifically to try stifling Messi. Barcelona are too good for that.

    "I have never tried to man-mark a player out of a game during my time at Arsenal," he says. "It can work, but in exceptional teams you have two or three players you should man-mark and then you have to go to a system where you could create your own problems just by following somebody everywhere.


    ========================================================

    Typically, Pele (59-70) -->Cruyff (70-76 --> Maradona (83-90) --> Ronaldo (96-98) were the most marking men in history (regardless the evolution in tactics from 60 - 70 -80 - 90

    NOTE the difference with Messi's BARCA :
    Santos 60, Ajax of 70 to Napoli 80 to Barca/Inter90s were not 10 world class men
     
  14. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    latest in WC2014, Susic also said the same thing:


    Susic: We won’t sacrifice a player to man-mark Messi
    (FIFA.com) 11 Jun 2014

    It is a dilemma for me, but to sacrifice a player just to man-mark Messi, I don't think it would be good for us.
    Bosnia and Herzegovina coach Safet Susic
     
  15. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    this will be am interesting season. Messi will get the best striker in the world to join him just like Maradona had with Careca in Napoli, cant wait to see some good assists!
     
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  16. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    mmm Messi had already much better stats (for Barca 2009-14) then Maradona at Napoli (85-92)
    with or without best striker ... Barca always had teh best players ...
     
  17. Zincubus

    Zincubus Member

    Jun 3, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Glen Hoddle - best long passer
    Michael Laudrup - best short- ball passer
     
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  18. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I would not say "best" ... but surely they deserved such mention ... among the best
     
  19. Zincubus

    Zincubus Member

    Jun 3, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Who comes close to them though ??

    Long balls -

    Short balls -
     
  20. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    not in order ... but ... close
    Long balls - Pele Platini Beckham Gerson Maradona and (arguably) Riquelme Pirlo and Zico Albertini, ...

    Shortballs - Didi, Di stefano, Zico, Platini, Cruyff, Pele, Maradona, Zidane Valderama, Riquelme, rivelino, rui Costa, Pep, Socrates, Xavi, .. ..... well ...too many
     
  21. SirWellingtonSilva

    May 30, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Pirlo is the best long passer ive seen, imo. Not in terms of pace on his passes, theres better long passers than him with regards to that, but the sheer accuracy of his floated passes is insane. And maradona the best short passer ive seen, technically at least, he was the most accomplished at cushioning and popping passes off no matter what high pace or angle the ball got to him at imo, it took sheer technique to do it all as precisely as he did.
     
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  22. United_xxx

    United_xxx Member

    Aug 10, 2004
    Thailand
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Scholes is one of the best long passers.
     
  23. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Long balls I'd say Michel Platini, Andrea Pirlo, Gunter Netzer, Diego Maradona and Pep Guardiola are all a little ahead of Glen Hoddle and Van Hanegem, Gerson, Paul Scholes, Xabi Alonso are all equal or atleast come close.

    In terms of short passing I can't argue with that choice. Laudrup was immense. Juan Roman Riquelme, Carlos Valderrama and Gianni Rivera do come close though, very close.
     
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  24. Zincubus

    Zincubus Member

    Jun 3, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Glen Hoddle was two footed as well . I don't even think one side was better than the other either .. In the last ten years I don't think anyone's been better than Steven Gerard tbh
     
  25. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Andrea Pirlo and Xabi Alonso have been comfortably better than Gerrard in these last ten years.
     
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