Top Mid Major Coaches

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by Sledhead, Dec 17, 2019.

  1. PowerSoccer

    PowerSoccer Member

    Dec 3, 2019
    Don’t disagree with any of that, but I still go back to how schools have done relative to what they have (funding, facilities, academics). Some schools will never be able to scalp a Power 5. But put that coach in a school with something to sell and you might have similar success or more. Maybe there should be a reality show called “Coach Swap”. Hahaha.
     
  2. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Coaches from teams in the E to F range of the alphabet, based on improvements/trends in their Massey ranks either over the last 13 years or from the year before the coach became head coach:

    Patrick Baker @ Florida Atlantic
    Jim Blankenship # Florida Gulf Coast
     
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  3. Collegewhispers

    Collegewhispers Member+

    Oct 27, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew

    I would say top mid major jobs (if we are calling them mid majors) that also have good coaches. Any of those jobs open the next coach in place will do well too.
    I still don’t see how Santa Clara and BYU are mid majors but I suppose there are upper and lower mid major programs.
     
  4. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In sports other than soccer, the WCC historically has been considered a mid-major conference. With Gonzaga and St Mary's men's basketball, that may be changing for basketball. I think the mid-major designation largely has to do with school size, as most of the WCC schools are small, late comer BYU notwithstanding. For collegiate soccer historic reasons, many have asserted over the years that the WCC should not be considered a mid-major since it established itself as a soccer power in the early days of the development of college soccer, especially women's, and thus is a special case among the mid-majors. I've particularly run into these assertions in response to my assertions that mid-majors can compete with the Power 5 conferences if they really want to make the investment of time, effort, and money, using the WCC as an example. The response has been the WCC doesn't count as a mid-major so far as soccer is concerned.o_O

    BYU, Santa Clara, and Pepperdine all can compete at a very high level. And, I wouldn't count out Portland, we'll have to wait and see how far back they can come under French -- they beat Cal and tied Santa Clara and Washington this year and were a win away from being a contender for an at large position in the NCAA Tournament. They still have a way to go, which is why I say "wait and see," but they've risen 149 positions in the RPI rankings in the two years French has been there and 82 in the Massey rankings.
     
  5. Sockers1

    Sockers1 Member

    Nov 7, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    FGCU reminds me of S.Florida, a very dangerous team for any first round opponent! I believe FAU has yet to make the NCAA Tournament..mainly due to North Texas in their league.
     
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  6. devad

    devad Member

    Nov 18, 2012
    This isn't my opinion. Just hit google and mid major. It is a reference to schools not accounted for in the 5 Power leagues. It isn't a knock on any league. It isn't a negative or even a ranking. The term Mid Major is a specific reference to teams not in those 5 leagues. In fact, basketball was probably where the term started and numerous "mid major" teams have been very successful.
     
  7. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    My opinion is that the term "mid-major" is misapplied for some sports. Strictly speaking, a mid-major school is, indeed, a school outside of the P5. The term, though, seems to apply much better to football and basketball.

    Some examples to illustrate my point:

    Let's look at men's soccer. This year SMU, UC Santa Barbara, UCF, Marshall, St. John's, Providence, St. Mary's, Missouri State, Seattle, Charlotte, New Hampshire, Campbell, and UC Davis all finished in the top 25 in the final poll (I don't think that I missed a school). That's 14 of the top 25 team that would be considered "mid-majors." That would never happen in basketball or football. While Akron's men's team had a season that they would surely like to forget, traditionally the Zips are probably one of the top 10 men's programs in the country. I believe in the past 5 years they've been in the championship game twice and made it to the College Cup 3 times. Akron is in the MAC so that clearly makes them a "mid-major." Let's complicate things more by looking at the West Virginia men's team. In most sports WVU is a member of the Big 12 conference. The Big 12 doesn't play men's soccer so WVU is a member of the MAC in that sport. Does that mean for revenue sports like basketball and football WVU is a P5 but in men's soccer they're mid-major?

    In women's soccer there were not as many mid-majors in the final top 25 but BYU, Santa Clara, South Florida, Memphis, Brown, and Xavier were all there. The University of Portland, while now only a shadow of what they used to be, were once a perennial national power. Portland is surely a mid-major.

    For my last example I want to look at the sport of men's cross country. Northern Arizona University has been that sport's most dominant team over the past three years. In that time they've won 2 national championships and were the runner up this year to BYU. Both NAU and BYU are in mid-major conferences.

    The point that I am trying to emphasize is that the term "mid-major" is really a term that should be used for the revenue sports. For the non-revenue sports the term is often misapplied and is often a misnomer. In the end I believe it all really comes down to an issue of semantics. For the differences in numbers of ranked P5 schools between men's and women's soccer, it is a title IX issue. There are many more women's teams at the P5 schools. On the men's side we're essentially removing most of the schools from men's soccer that are in the Big 12 and SEC conferences. The schools in those conferences that do have men's teams are playing in different leagues.
     
  8. devad

    devad Member

    Nov 18, 2012
    1. The term Mid major originated with Basketball. There is far more parity in men's basketball than women's soccer. The fact that you are using Xavier as an example proves my point.

    2. Mid Major isn't about quality. It is simply a term. This isn't a knock on any of these leagues. No one is using the term to say the Big East is a bad league.

    3. Mid-major isn't actually used in Football. They use P5 (Power 5) and G5 (Group of 5.) There is virtually no parity in football. You could argue Men's Basketball has more parity than any other sport.

    You are referring to these teams that compete at a high level. The first issue is Mid Major is not derogatory. The 2nd is the examples you use are exceptions. Or you wouldn't be using them.

    Why should mid major be used for "revenue sports." There are only 2 (Men's basketball and Football.) 1 has far more parity than Women's soccer and the other doesn't use the term.
     
  9. iamdelgado

    iamdelgado Member

    Dec 3, 2019
    Hard to compare men and women's soccer. Pac 12 has 5 men's soccer programs. San Diego St plays in the conference. The SEC and Big 12 don't sponsor men's soccer. ACC has no Miami or FSU on the men's side. Big 10 has 9 men's and 14 women's.
    That's why the Top 25 on the men's side is what it is.
     
  10. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I appreciate all that you're saying and agree with you but, again, it's largely an issue of semantics. I never insinuated that the term "mid-major" is derogatory but do feel that it is antiquated and often misapplied.
     
  11. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For what I'm doing, I'm going to consider the distinction is between Power 5 conferences and the next tier. I've just finished with the teams beginning with the letter G, and right away I see how the distinction can get blurred:

    Dave Nolan @ Georgetown (blurring the distinction, as in, "Would moving from Georgetown to a Power 5 team be an upgrade?" Perhaps to some, but not to a lot of them).

    Chris Watkins @ Gonzaga -- this seems a "too soon to tell" case, since Watkins has been there only 3 years, but as of now he looks like one to watch. Suppose that Gonzaga's rise continues. How many Power 5 conference teams would be an attraction?

    Both of these indicate there's not a bright line between the Power 5 and the very next conferences.
     
  12. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #62 cpthomas, Dec 28, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
    From school beginning with H:

    Simon Riddiough @ Hofstra An obvious one.

    Casey Brown @ Holy Cross Too soon to know how good she is, but she's one to watch.
     
  13. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From the I's:

    Tom Anagnost @ Illinois Chicago -- No surprise there, but a 159 rank position rise in the Massey rankings in 1 year is stunning.

    Emma Wright-Cates @ Incarnate Word -- too early to tell, but one to watch. 50 rank position rise in first 2 years. Another year of improvement at UIW might suggest she'd be a candidate for moving to the next conference tier.
     
  14. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From teams beginning with J and K:

    Benji Walton @ Kennesaw State -- has improved their Massey rank every year, with a total rank rise of 147 positions from 2015, the year before he began.
     
  15. SoccerTrustee

    SoccerTrustee Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Cpthomas, Casey Brown is a she. Agree too early to tell, but pretty good year this last season.

    Also, not sure what your metrics are, but for teams in the A-D category you didn’t have Boston University. Can tell you Nancy Feldman is highly regarded here in New England and was curious why she wouldn’t be considered one of the top mid-major coaches. One of the few mid-major coaches to actually have won an NCAA Tournament game.
     
  16. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for your correction on Casey Brown, she looks like an up and comer.

    I know Feldman's highly regarded, by me too, and she had a great run at BU. But, times change and maybe she's not been able to adapt? Anyway, this -- which I'm sad to post -- shows why I didn't include her. The blue is Massey and the red the RPI (you can ignore the grey and the orange). The straight blue line is BU's straight line Massey trend, and the curved blue is a polynomial trend that matches better (statistically) with the rank data. Either way, BU's been on a pretty serious decline since it moved to the Patriot League (although I'd be surprised if that move has anything to do with it). This is somewhat similar to Marquette's history, where Roeders was a successful and highly respected coach.

    I'd be interested if anyone has specific knowledge and insight as to what's happened at BU.

    upload_2019-12-28_19-8-0.png
     
  17. PowerSoccer

    PowerSoccer Member

    Dec 3, 2019
    Feldman has been there forever and is at a school that is difficult not to win at. I’m not sure highly regarded is the right description for her. She’s more the product of the school than the other way around and as other schools have begun to invest more in their programs, they have started to struggle.

    She had the advantage of being the head of the ODP Regional Staff for years, but as that program has collapsed, her built in advantage has gone with it. On level ground, she struggles to compete.
     
  18. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Anagnost has been mentioned several times in this thread. He was previously a coach at Miami (Fla) so he has coaches in a "power" conference. There's no doubt that he's done well at UIC.

    Anagnost was fired from Miami. Does anyone know the specifics of what happened there? I've heard a lot of different stories and it's hard to know what story has credibility and what story doesn't.
     
  19. SoccerTrustee

    SoccerTrustee Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    BU joined the Patriot League in 2013. In those 7 seasons, they have won 4 regular season titles and 4 postseason titles. Of those 4 NCAA appearances, they have advanced to the second round twice which I don’t know of any other non-Power 5/WCC/Big East/Ivy school doing. It is very rare for these mid-major teams pulling off these first round wins, in the past Oakland did it to Ohio State and South Dakota State did it Colorado as examples, and BU has done it twice. If that is ‘struggling’ then I’d like to know what success is defined as. Yes they had a very down year this past year but it’s one year in a big body of work. And as members of the America East was pretty much a given that they would win that every year. Can’t see how a top mid-major coaches list would be absent of Nancy Feldman’s name.
     
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  20. Sam Miami

    Sam Miami Member

    Bayern Munich
    Germany
    Sep 11, 2019
    Did they beat P5's or was it the northeast advantage of the regionalization of matches that got them paired with "weaker" openers? The Santa Clara v Cal 1st rounder happens constantly and the unfairness is frustrating on there men's and women's side of things
     
  21. Sam Miami

    Sam Miami Member

    Bayern Munich
    Germany
    Sep 11, 2019
    Speaking of frustrating, how is Washington still open?
     
  22. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After Miami, Anagnost went to Mississippi State, where they finished in the top 20 in 2018 (although that ranking may have been too high). His departure from Mississippi State was sudden, but I think on his initiative after something happened that shook him up and caused him to re-evaluate a lot of things.
     
  23. Respect the Game

    PSG
    United States
    Apr 17, 2019
    USA
    #73 Respect the Game, Dec 29, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
    I was at the BU Denver game (0-0) where they picked up from their near upset of the SEC Champs LSU in NCAA's also a 0-0 2ot game (lsu advanced on pk's 1-2). That close. And LSU was loaded with english national players several transferred this year or went back to uk.
    This was the same LSU that took down south carolina 2×'s that season and TN and Arkansas. BU was a PK away from advancing. Both gk's in that game made at least 3 pk saves. Athletic saves.

    Then as i followed them throughout the season as they looked like a contender and i follow navy teams too. It seems they suffered from many injuries, played a lot of freshmen as a result, and NF seems to make a lot of substitutions and game time player position shifts. In my opinion unnecessarily. I chide AD for it too but he has the depth. Most teams do not. Plus BU just could not finish. I watched missed pk's, missed open net shots or shots at gk's on the ground. That is coaching. I also see they had new assistant coaches.
     
  24. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've done with the Ls, results below.

    But some notes.:geek: What matters, when looking at where a program is and is going based on ranking history, is not just one year but rather the long term. Various things can cause temporary aberrations -- such as a spate of injuries or a player unexpectedly turning into a superstar, so it's important to see if what looks like a change in direction is only temporary. Because of this, a recent significant ranking change may not really indicate a change in direction, it may take a couple more years to know. Also, sometimes the trends show upcoming changes that seem too large to be likely. In addition, sometimes the straight trend lines go in one direction and the polynomials go in another. Those all are things to consider in using trends to evaluate a program. So, it's just one way to do an evaluation. A main benefit of it, however, is that it takes human subjectivity out of it, so if your evaluation is inconsistent with what the trends show, that's a red flag that your evaluation may have less rationality to it than you think.:eek:

    Steve Holman @ Lamar -- This is a maybe, it probably will take more time to see if he's a candidate to move up a level.

    Kevin O'Brien @ Lipscomb -- he looks like the real thing. He's been there for 8 years. The year before he arrived their Massey rank was 295 and this year it was 118. It looks possible he's maxed out what will be possible at Lipscomb.

    Mauricio Ingrassia @ Long Beach State -- He's had them at a pretty high level for a mid-major for a long time. They had a bad year in 2019, but that may be a good example of what I mentioned above, i.e., an aberration.

    Kevin Sherry @ Louisiana Tech -- they've climbed 138 ranking positions over 10 years. He's another one whose team may have maxed out on what's possible.

    Barry Bimbi @ Loyola Chicago

    Almost half way there on this tedious but interesting team history review.
     
  25. PowerSoccer

    PowerSoccer Member

    Dec 3, 2019
    I’m enjoying reading it and seeing where programs have been along with where they are headed. Thanks for doing it.
     

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