"PlayStation numbers" in a Playstation team.. playing with the core of the Spanish NT that won two Eurocopas and one WC, the best offensive coach of the last 15-20 years with Guardiola, with arguably the best RB of all time in Dani Alves, with more a bunch of world class players etc. From 2009/10 to 2012/3 he scored 17 Goals (15 non-PK Goals) with at max 8 assists in 26 matches against half-decent and decent teams (not minnors)... that is very good but way different than these "playstation numbers" against poor ranked teams. He played as striker or second striker. + 1 Goal vs Real Madrid in 2012/3 and nothing against Bayern in the UCL semifinal. In this route he faced failures in competitives matches with Argentina, notably in Copa América 2011 and World Cup 2010.
Barcelona played only 4 strong teams in 4 seasons between 09/10 and 12/13 What kind of Bullshit chart is this Arsenal is a strong team But 12/13 atletico Madrid is not?? He scored a Hattrick I recall from memory He scored 4 goals in 1 game vs Malaga 11/12 Malaga finished 4th place la liga Having players like isco,Joaquín,van nistelrooy,santi cazorla A very strong team with positive results Reaching the champions league QF in 2012/13 How many times has he destroyed Seville? Over the past 10 years seville has definitely been a historically better team than Manchester United Arsenal Tottenham No doubt about this La liga vs English teams 2009-2013 Including knockout phase matches only 2009/10 Atletico Madrid 2-1 Liverpool Atletico Madrid 2-1 Fulham 2010/11 Barcelona 4-3 arsenal Real Madrid 5-0 Tottenham Barcelona 3-1 Manchester United 2011/12 Valencia 2-0 stoke Athletic Bilbao 5-3 Manchester United Chelsea 3-2 Barcelona 2012/13 Atletico Madrid 4-1 Chelsea Madrid 3-2 Manchester United 10 KO ties were played between la liga teams and EPL teams La liga teams came on top 9 times I know many Brazilians are excited by the intensity of premier league football but i can assure you they never have been able to stand toe to toe with Spanish teams for the best part of 10 years All those poor teams that you refuse to include in your analysis thoroughly dismantled their English counterparts again and again Pre 2009/10 it is a different story In 08/09 Liverpool real Madrid 5-0 Manchester United beat Barcelona in 07/08 and Villarreal in 08/09 Liverpool beat Barcelona in 2006/07 Chelsea beat Valencia in 06/07 Arsenal beat Villarreal in 08/09 This is CL KO encounters in just 3 seasons between English and la liga teams The Elo method is not representative of the reality of football A game in which anything can happen
They are not strong teams for that Real Madrid or Barcelona squad. Perhaps Arsenal or Sevilla would be much stronger if you compare it with Udinese from 1983, not with that Barcelona. With Messi or without Messi, Barcelona would demolish these teams, the difference is such so big to someone just dismiss and say it is bias. Not! There are difference between the quality of the players, wage budget, overrall finances, staff etc. Lionel Messi: Since August 2009, Barcelona have a better win rate in La Liga without Messi starting (84.2%) than they do with him (78.2%)— WhoScored.com (@WhoScored) April 6, 2013 The Guardiola system alongside the Spanish Golden Era players can deal with these Sevilla, Malaga type of teams as easy. I know you are a partial member who shows only what you want to show and hides what you don't want to show, but I'm here to put things in perspective though... and the fact is that the Elo ratings is still pretty much the best methodology to compare levels between one team/player and another.
Still according to Smarterscout is harder to one player like Cristiano Ronaldo translate their own level to the Premier League than it is to La Liga according to their methodology. (see in the faq below) The league adjustments are based on playing careers going back several years; players' experiences of moving between leagues create a vast network from which the system can calibrate adjustments for each metric independently. https://smarterscout.com/faq Cristiano Ronaldo Premier League, Attacking Output: 67 La Liga, Attacking Output: 75 Spoiler (Move your mouse to the spoiler area to reveal the content) Show Spoiler Hide Spoiler ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually they are reaching good/accurate results with their predictions (almost matched their predicition last year with the Brazilian League final results, especially in terms of expected goal difference positions) Maybe they do have a point. https://twitter.com/smarterscout
Coming from you? Who speaks highly about Pele demolishing Palmerias, Sao Paulo and Corinthians. You can take his post Guardiola era stats if you want. He has 53 goals and 16 assists in 80 matches (0.86 Goal contribution per game) against Top 4 La Liga teams across all competitions. That's nothing but impressive
Nobody cares about the 'Sevilles Malagas deportivos' It is the only premier league In his part of Brazil they only broadcast EPL games possibly Which could slightly mitigate the lunacy in his rhetoric The irony is not that Pele demolished palmeiras and Corinthians First someone would have to establish beyond doubt that demolishing those teams was a great achievement to begin with Its not proven as of yet The irony is this: Tropiero says guardiola era Barcelona would easily dismantle "Malagas" without Messi So in effect his numbers against those teams should be rendered completely obsolete Bavarian How does a typical back and forth between a Pele enthusiast and Pele sceptic usually go? Pele enthusiast "Nobody could match Pele in his own era as proven by his record across all levels" Pele sceptic "Most of his goals were scored against regional teams whose quality cannot be established" Pele enthusiast: "It doesn't matter When Pele played against European defences he scored at an even higher rate" Pele sceptic "Pele played on such a dominating and talented team Santos were able to beat the best teams in the world without Pele" Pele enthusiast "Bullshit" Pele sceptic "Santos beat Milan in the 1963 intercontinental cup 4-2 And Pele wasn't even playing" Not only that But when Pele was playing in the first leg of the 1963 intercontinental cup Santos lost 4-2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1963_Intercontinental_Cup Pele fanboy "LIAAAAAAAARRRRR Stop spreading misinfo Ban this guy moderator hes using bad language" So please Correct me if im wrong I've been accused of having a "shallow understanding" Messis stats against "malagas" are obsolete because "guardiola era Barcelona" would easily dismantle them without him Peles stats against European teams in the 60s should also be rendered obsolete following this exact same line of reasoning
Of course it is impressive. But still Santos was more about Palmeiras, São Paulo, Corinthians level in the let's say 1960s (Palmeiras was arguably stronger than Santos without Pelé) than Barcelona was than the third and the fourth usually. Barcelona main rivals in La Liga were and still are Atlético Madrid (2013-) and Real Madrid. Malaga, Sevilla, Valencia, Getafe etc were not big deal for Real Madrid or Barcelona this decade. Sevilla included around 2015 one season I think.
Santos without Pele were arguably stronger than European cup winners AC Milan Say it It must difficult
Yes, I reported you when you said the other member was stupid out of nothing and without context. Actually the Moderator can analyze this type of behaviour.
Arguably they were or also stronger than Benfica as well. Yes? Arguably? Probably? I can't analyse Pelé's record vs European clubs. I just made a parallel between the win percentage between the dominance of the main teams in one league and another. It is far from perfect anyway.
To be fair Pelé did score 2 goals in the loss vs Milan. I'd say playing away back then in another country ... specially in another Continent was tougher for the traveling team. But you make fair points.
This kind of comparison doesn't make sense, Barcelona could face more difficult games with Messi as starter, and leave Messi on the bench for easier or less important games, believing that Barcelona plays better without Messi is absurd
I don't believe Barcelona plays better without Messi and that was not my initial point, even tho Barcelona showed some great matches without Messi starting as well, vs Real Madrid 2015/2016, vs Real Madrid 2018/2019... vs Inter 2009/10 vs Malaga (cited here with Isco, Joaquin etc) vs Leverkusen (don't qualify, but still), Villarreal etc. Btw, Barcelona does have some bad matches with Messi on the pitch as well. vs Bayern 2012/3 for example (in his 'playstarion' phase...) Barcelona was pretty much a great team without Messi, that is the point, especially before Neymar left to PSG.
Because they start to debate things that have nothing to do with the Forum; here it is not only who is better between messi and Cr7 or Real Madrid vs Barcelona, it is a matter of providing data on the great free throw scorers seeking to be impartial in the criteria and at the moment Juninho has 70 direct free throws plus 7 indirect free throws; Well, since it is very difficult to get data on free throw goals, I would advise against looking for algorithms of effectiveness since they are only based on certain periods of time and in certain competitions, that is, a player can miss 50 shots in a league but put 4 10 shots with your selection and so really% of effectiveness is 40% or 0%. So this depends on which competition is compared and even time because data is arbitrarily taken where one player did better than another over and over again.
I haven't watched Pele play against those teams (neither have you I suppose) so can't really say about that Athletic Club and Villarreal provides more competition than Malaga & Getafe imo. ATB beating Barcelona 4-0 in 2015 at Supercopa. Also Barcelona's away record is pretty awful against teams like Real Sociedad (2 wins since 2010). This season it's just worse than ever.
52 Goals scored and 43 assists in 10934 minutes in the Brazilian Serie A for Corinthians (his peak) His team scored 190 goals in 127 matches in those matches. http://www.playmakerstats.com/xray....ogador_na_equipa_id=2234&filter_match=in_with Mais assistências pelo Corinthians no Brasileiro: #MeuTimao1 - Marcelinho - 43A2 - Jadson - 31A3 - Vaguinho - 29A4 - Rivellino - 27A5 - Kléber e Danilo - 25A7 - João Paulo e Fagner* - 19A9 - Elias - 16A10 - Ricardinho, Douglas, R. Augusto e Clayson - 15A*atual elenco— Tomás Rosolino (@TomasRosolino) November 27, 2020 Some of the goals scored are FKs. 1 - Jogador com mais assistências de 1962 para cá.Marcelinho sobra neste quesito. São 185 passes para gol com a camisa do Corinthians contra 120 de Rivellino, segundo colocado. #MeuTimao pic.twitter.com/Z1ojgWIHM3— Tomás Rosolino (@TomasRosolino) June 16, 2020 https://www.meutimao.com.br/coluna/...-que-marcelinho-carioca-detem-no-corinthians/ https://www.meutimao.com.br/noticia...oce-as-assistencias-do-corinthians-desde-1962 206 goals, 185 assists in 433 matches for Corinthians. That is more than Rivellino... 144 goals, 120 assists in 474 matches.
+ 2 free-kick gols from Zico. 23/01/1982 Flamengo 4-3 Náutico - Campeonato Brasileiro () 22/11/1987 Flamengo 3-1 Santa Cruz - Campeonato Brasileiro () now... = 64 free-kick goals (official) = 82 free kick-goals (official and non-official goals)
Impressive video, in the absence of checking that all the goals are in official matches and there are about 2 with notorious deviations from the defenders but in case the shot is clearly seen at the goal it would be 75 from direct free kick, 2 from free kick indirect and 4 Olympic goals which would mean a new brand with the records we have.
There is a list of all of his goals compiled in this video in the comments section. 2 goals were scored in friendly matches for Corinthians. But I believe that some free-kick goals are missing.
Roberto Dinamite scored 74 free-kick goals in official matches. [video] 1973 - 3 goals 1) 14/jul/1973 Vasco 3-2 Botafogo - Campeonato Carioca 2) 17/out/1973 Comercial-MS 1-1 Vasco - Campeonato Brasileiro 3) 21/out/1973 Atlético-PR 1-2 Vasco - Campeonato Brasileiro 1974 - 7 goals 4) 17/mar/1974 Vasco 1-1 Flamengo - Campeonato Brasileiro 5) 29/mai/1974 Vasco 1-0 Avaí - Campeonato Brasileiro 6 e 7) 16/jun/1974 Vasco 3-1 Internacional - Campeonato Brasileiro 8) 14/jul/1974 Vasco 2-0 Corinthians - Campeonato Brasileiro 9) 26/out/1974 Vasco 2-0 Madureira - Campeonato Carioca 10) 29/out/1974 Vasco 1-1 Fluminense - Campeonato Carioca 1975 - 4 goals 11) 26/fev/1975 Vasco 2-0 Portuguesa/RJ - Campeonato Carioca 12) 28/mai/1975 Vasco 2-1 São Cristóvão - Campeonato Carioca 13) 13/jul/1975 Vasco 3-2 Flamengo - Campeonato Carioca 14) 07/set/1975 Vasco 4-2 Flamengo - Campeonato Brasileiro 1976 - 0 1977 - 1 goal 15) 02/nov/1977 Goiânia 2-6 Vasco - Campeonato Brasileiro 1978 - 2 goals 16) 30/mar/1978 Vasco 4-0 CSA - Campeonato Brasileiro 17) 19/nov/1978 Vasco 5-0 Campo Grande - Campeonato Carioca 1979 - 1 goal 18) 11/abr/1979 Vasco 4-1 São Cristóvão - Campeonato Carioca Especial 1980 - 0 1981 - 8 goals 19) 25/jan/1981 Vasco 4-0 Internacional - Campeonato Brasileiro 20) 12/fev/1981 Vasco 6-1 Londrina/PR - Campeonato Brasileiro 21) 17/jun/1981 Vasco 1-0 Campo Grande - Campeonato Carioca 22) 16/set/1981 Vasco 3-2 Bangu - Campeonato Carioca 23) 8/nov/1981 Vasco 2-2 Volta Redonda - Campeonato Carioca 24 e 25) 18/nov/1981 Vasco 4-0 Americano - Campeonato Carioca 26) 29/nov/1981 Vasco 2-0 Flamengo - Campeonato Carioca 1982 - 9 goals 27) 31/jan/1982 Paysandu 1-3 Vasco - Campeonato Brasileiro 28) 10/fev/1982 Vasco 2-0 Paysandu - Campeonato Brasileiro 29) 29/mai/1982 Vasco 3-1 Santos - Torneio dos Campeões 30) 1/ago/1982 Vasco 5-0 Portuguesa/RJ - Campeonato Carioca 31) 22/ago/1982 Vasco 2-1 América/RJ - Campeonato Carioca 32) 5/set/1982 Vasco 1-0 Botafogo - Campeonato Carioca 33) 17/out/1982 Vasco 3-2 Fluminense - Campeonato Carioca 34) 31/out/1982 Vasco 1-1 Campo Grande - Campeonato Carioca 35) 10/nov/1982 Vasco 1-1 Volta Redonda - Campeonato Carioca 1983 - 8 goals 36) 6/mar/1983 Vasco 5-2 Treze/PB - Campeonato Brasileiro 37) 14/mar/1983 Vasco 1-0 Náutico - Campeonato Brasileiro 38) 21/abr/1983 Vasco 2-2 Náutico - Campeonato Brasileiro 39) 10/jul/1983 Vasco 1-1 Bangu - Campeonato Carioca 40) 16/jul/1983 Vasco 1-0 Goytacaz - Campeonato Carioca 41) 31/jul/1983 Vasco 1-2 América/RJ - Campeonato Carioca 42) 21/ago/1983 Vasco 1-3 Fluminense - Campeonato Carioca 43) 25/set/1983 Vasco 2-2 Bangu - Campeonato Carioca 1984 - 5 goals 44 e 45) 29/jan/1984 Vasco 2-3 São Paulo - Campeonato Brasileiro 46) 22/mar/1984 Vasco 1-0 Grêmio - Campeonato Brasileiro 47) 11/abr/1984 Vasco 1-0 Coritiba - Campeonato Brasileiro 48) 21/out/1984 Vasco 3-0 Volta Redonda - Campeonato Carioca 1985 - 6 goals 49 e 50) 10/fev/1985 Vasco 2-1 América/RJ - Campeonato Brasileiro 51) 16/fev/1985 Vasco 5-3 Fluminense - Campeonato Brasileiro 52) 14/jul/1985 Vasco 2-2 Internacional - Campeonato Brasileiro 53) 04/set/1985 Vasco 1-1 Volta Redonda - Campeonato Carioca 54) 03/nov/1985 Vasco 4-0 Bonsucesso - Campeonato Carioca 1986 - 8 goals 55) 16/fev/1986 Vasco 6-0 Goytacaz - Campeonato Carioca 56 e 57) 09/mar/1986 Vasco 2-2 Bangu - Campeonato Carioca 58) 30/mar/1986 Vasco 2-1 Americano - Campeonato Carioca 59) 11/maio/1986 Vasco 2-0 Portuguesa/RJ - Campeonato Carioca 60 e 61) 05/out/1986 Vasco 6-0 Operário/MT - Campeonato Brasileiro 62) 23/out/1986 Vasco 3-1 Sobradinho - Campeonato Brasileiro 1987 - 3 goals 63) 17/abr/1987 Vasco 2-0 Cabofriense - Campeonato Carioca 64) 06/mai/1987 Vasco 6-0 Mesquita - Campeonato Carioca 65) 24/mai/1987 Vasco 2-2 Goytacaz - Campeonato Carioca 1988 - 0 1989 - 4 goals 66) 08/abr/1989 Vasco 3-0 Bangu - Campeonato Carioca 67) 29/abr/1989 Vasco 3-2 Cabofriense - Campeonato Carioca 68) 10/set/1989 Portuguesa 1-2 Goiás - Campeonato Brasileiro 69) 11/nov/1989 Portuguesa 1-1 Náutico - Campeonato Brasileiro 1990 - 2 goals 70) 31/jan/1990 Vasco 5-0 Nova Cidade - Campeonato Carioca 71) 18/mar/1990 Vasco 1-1 Botafogo - Campeonato Carioca 1991 - 0 1992 - 3 goals 72) 26/jul/1992 Vasco 2-0 Volta Redonda - Copa Rio 73) 04/ago/1992 Vasco 5-0 Nacional-AM - Copa do Brasil 74) 02/set/1992 Vasco 1-0 América de Três Rios - Campeonato Carioca @MPALACIOS10 @carlito86 @Tropeiro @comme @PDG1978 @Tom Stevens
Hello reviewing the goals of Marcelinho ... I have come to certain observations, the goal that appears in the 15th place in the Corinthians 4-0 Aracatuba match of the 1994 Bandeirantes Cup was not scored by Marcelinho but by Gralak, Marcelinho's goal in this match is the second that would be 1 Olympic goal (of which I have quite a few doubts, because it looks like an own goal), here is the summary of the match: Now I found another video with which to compare the goals of this one and I found two discrepancies Goals that did not come in the 81-goal video 13- Corinthians 3-2 Ituano 04 / April / 1994 48- Corinthians vs Palmeiras. Paulista Championship 1999 Note: the number is from the video of 75 where they did come Goals that did not come in the 75-goal video 07- Flamengo 1-1Bahia 09 / Oct / 1993. 15- Corinthians 4-0 Aracatuba Jul 25, 1994 Note: the number is from the video of 81 where they did come Now in conclusion it only remains to clear the goal of flamengo 1-1 bahia to know if in total there are 75 or 76 goals between direct and indirect, if someone has a video of that match it would be fine, or that I could find a chronicle where it was mentioned the goal is a free kick to know 100% that if it is that goal