Top 5 individual performance in CL history

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Isaías Silva Serafim, Jan 10, 2023.

  1. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    Different rating scale.
     
  2. CristianoPuskas

    Manchester United
    Portugal
    May 27, 2021
    just tell me
     
  3. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    My rating scale:
    9.5-10 : all timer performance
    8.5-9: great
    7.5-8 : good
    7: decent
    6: mid
     
  4. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #104 carlito86, Jun 13, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2024
    Line up of johans Cruyff last game for Ajax(first stint)
    IMG_2258.jpeg
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_European_Cup_final



    Players who were longer playing for Ajax in 1975/1976 including substitutions



    Johan Cruyff

    Piet kiezer

    Johan neeskens

    Johnny rep

    Horst blakenburg

    Arnold Mühren

    Sjaak Swart

    Johan Mulder

    Gerrie Kleton


    István Kovács(their manager left after this game)

    We’re talking about an entirely different team
    not even their manager was there
     
  5. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    Tell us about the 1973/74 season
    Don't mention Swart as he had already retired in 72/73 and was on the bench for most of the games.
    And Istvan Kovac was just a tool, he did nothing outside of Ajax. Cruyff was both a player and a coach in his last 2 seasons at Ajax.
     
  6. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #106 carlito86, Jun 13, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2024
    1973/74 was a transitional period which is normal after a team loses their best player




    don’t pretend as if they were relegation threatened either


    What is your point anyways?
    They lost the league to feyenoord by 5 points in 1973/74 without Cruyff
    IMG_2260.jpeg
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973–74_Eredivisie

    the lost the league to feyenoord by 4 points in 1970/71 with Cruyff
    IMG_2259.jpeg
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970–71_Eredivisie
    That Cruyff was worth one point to Ajax lol

    and after that there was an exodus of players leaving the club and it wasn’t even the same team(except in name)

    that is like Real Madrid 2018/19 having an off season after losing Ronaldo

    and then losing half of their starting 11 across 2019/20 and 2020/21(Modric,Kroos,benzema etc)
     
  7. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    #107 ffff15, Jun 13, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2024
    First, Cruyff missed 8 eredivisie games in 70/71 season and they just won 4 games without him..
    Second, ajax became more stronger in the 71/72 & 72/73 seasons, they were at their absolute peak in the 1972/73 season.
    Third, back then it was 2 points for a win, unlike today football.
    So You should compare 72/73 to 73/74, but we know you are god of fallacious arguments..
    Ajax became better every season passed by, even a retard with below 80 IQ know that.
     
  8. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #108 carlito86, Jun 13, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2024
    Why is 1970/71 such a bad starting point?

    After all didn’t they win the European cup after defeating the almighty panathinikos?
     
  9. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    @PDG1978
    Talking about 1971 and verging off topic slightly lol

    this is possibly the best song(with the best vocals and overall message) I think I have heard in my entire life.


    you are a big fan of Diane Ross another Motown artist I believe you said a while back

    This is probably not the thread for this but I guess 1971 and even the 1970s in general did produce a considerable amount of all time legendary talent in all sectors of entertainment (Ali in boxing,Cruyff in football,Borg in tennis and in music I think we can be here all day)
     
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  10. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I like the song for sure, but strangely I don't know I ever heard of that version even though Marvin Gaye is a well known/legendary music artist obviously.

    This one was current in my generation, by Robert Palmer, and maybe I had an inkling it was a cover version but didn't know for sure:

    I guess for whatever reason this one is much more famous as one of his songs for example and played more on the radio (although I could possibly have wrongly assumed it was Robert Palmer if I ever heard Mercy Mercy me playing maybe lol!):


    I remember this, from around a couple of decades later, by John Lennon's son, as another easy listening protest song:

    That kind of message should really have received much more attention, and action, at the time than it did I think we can say in hindsight (re: global warming)

    Yeah, I suppose all eras have legendary and talented performers, and contributions to 'entertainment' history in some respects, but I think you're right the 1970s was pretty good for creativity and innovation and varied music of a newer vibe compared to in the 1960s.

    I suppose Ali (albeit known by another name he didn't like) emerged (and maybe peaked? - I'm not an expert though) in the 1960s, and Cruyff did too but is certainly synonymous with the 1970s more than any player. Borg for sure though, Viv Richards in Cricket, Bobby Orr in Ice Hockey etc are all all-time legends in their sports and in sport overall for example, and this guy in Skiing too:
     
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  11. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #111 PDG1978, Jun 14, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2024
    I'm hoping (and probably thinking) that Julian Lennon's song was purely a positive message/protest song, and doesn't have any 9/11 or Covid prediction symbolism in it anyway (the masks are about the pollution I think to be fair and would have been worn in some countries to an extent already in 1991)!

    I admit I did see the video for Price Tag by Jessie J the first time the other day and somehow got a different feeling from the video than the seemingly well-meaning lyrics I guess, with certain thoughts crossing my mind (that she denies though I see):
    Jessie J dismisses Illuminati support (digitalspy.com)

    I'm going to take the Marvin Gaye song as genuine anyway (the fact he has such a soulful voice helps give that impression too I suppose and he did write the words himself apparently)!

    Just the talk of blue skies reminded me of another 70s song, that didn't get to number 1, but does well in All-Time charts (and I voted for myself too), by a band of the 70s that mixed classical and pop music together:

    Smooth Radio’s All Time Top 500 2022
    I see that Heard it Through the Grapevine was indeed the highest entry (that 2022 year at least) as a Marvin Gaye song on there by the way (there is a search box to search by songs and artists)....
     
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  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    He missed the start of the 1970-71 season and Ajax stood 6th in the league when he returned. At the end of the season they narrowly lost the league to Feyenoord (itself one of the top teams in Europe).

     
  13. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, not specifically for EC (although Ajax fell out of contention after he left, and Barcelona became more of a contender after he joined) but in general that aspect is for sure in Cruyff's favour more than for most players I guess (the effect on team results). It gets said sometimes "compare the 1978 World Cup to 1974 World Cup" but that's just as simplistic as just comparing the two results vs Argentina (with very different conclusion) I would think, and I remember you did make a thread about results with and without players that highlighted this aspect too (albeit the sample sizes and circumstances can vary for different players).

    I remember you showed Cruyff was actually a fan of ELO (Electric Light Orchestra) himself didn't you (not with a specific mention of that Mr Blue Sky song though IIRC) - maybe with an old page from Shoot magazine, with a quickfire question type interview like they used to do....?

    The 1973/74 Barcelona season is an even clearer example I suppose (albeit maybe their results could at least have picked up a bit even if he hadn't joined, as teams do sometimes make bad starts then improve...but to win the league in such fashion I think would surely not happen without him after the start they made).
     
  14. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #114 carlito86, Jun 14, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2024
    Yeah Ali is more commonly associated with the 70s I’d say at least to the casual boxing.
    The return from the Vietnam war ban followed by an unlikely return to the top of his profession
    The three legendary bouts vs Frazier and of course the legendary rope a dope victory in zaire against foreman (that is foreman who was killing everything moving on two legs including Frazier himself)

    All of this was broadcast in colour too unlike his earlier bouts in the 60s which makes it a lot more watchable for the modern day fan

    Marvin gayes album what’s going on(the song being part of this) was voted by rolling stones magazine as the number 1 album of all time.
    I think that is incredible and I agree with most of their reasons
    https://www.rs500albums.com/50-1/1

    a sad state of affairs that it doesn’t get the radio play it deserves (even 50 years later as a lot of his music is relevant today)

    instead most of what is produced today and widely circulated is harmful to ear drums(Taylor swift),self destructive,promoting misogyny and violence towards others(Rap in it’s various forms with very few exceptions aside)

    I’m unaware of an entire genre that preceded the 90s with a subject matter as repulsive as this

    better music(especially one with a clear positive message) inspires and helps to produce a better society at large
    It is definitely far from being the only solution(I am not delusional unlike what some people here may say lol) but it definitely helps for sure IMO

    a voice like Marvin gayes though Is a one in a billion

    will return to the CL after this in case others get their knickers in a twist.
     
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  15. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah, I think re: Ali I was thinking that in terms of 'talent' (though he was less experienced and that counts for something in that sport I suppose) he may have had a 60s peak, after seeing some old highlights on ESPN Classic or somewhere like that of him when winning some early world titles I think (it seemed like he wouldn't need to be using rope a dope etc because he could just sway out of the way for example in those days!).

    I quite like Christmas Tree Farm by Taylor Swift, and in theory that's a wholesome enough song I guess too, but yeah I know what you mean in general (I did quite like MC Hammer's U Can't Touch This back in the day though - I believe there were even some rumours, or facts, about violence by him too though albeit maybe in that case it's seen more as standing up for himself or something like that as far as I understand it...which isn't very far!). There are some catchy tunes still, and some talented song writers/performers (Ed Sheeran etc I guess) but yeah I'd struggle to recognise (or at least name) a lot of the more modern songs. You can see on that Smooth radio top 500 countdown there are a few recent songs dotted around here and there in the top 100 IIRC, but not that many (I guess the demographic who listen to that station is a bit older, and more chilled, than ones who listen to some other stations though).

    Anyway yeah, I'll get back to updating IceBlood's thread myself now. I don't think this has diverted too much away from CL performance discussion anyway: thanks for the friendly chat (I hope it didn't seem like I had to turn you 'nostalgic' too though in order for us to get on well again lol!).

    EDIT - Hmm, I just realised I picked out the Taylor Swift song where she herself is being nostalgic!:ROFLMAO:
     
  16. CristianoPuskas

    Manchester United
    Portugal
    May 27, 2021
    Taylor Swift is undoubtedly good music lmao.

     
  17. CristianoPuskas

    Manchester United
    Portugal
    May 27, 2021
    after Real Madrid 3x1 Manchester United, 2002/03 QF First Leg

    ssd.png

    "Zidane, wonderful Zidane, quite simply one of the greatest players of all time"

    ssd 1.png ssd 2.png ssd 3.png
     
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  18. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #118 carlito86, Jun 14, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2024
    It’s all subjective
    When my girlfriend wants to punish me she will play her music at home

    I said what I said about Johan Cruyff but in no universe can zidanes legacy at CL level be compared to that of Cruyff

    he was the best player of a three peat winning team.
    While its isn’t even crystal clear Zidane was more important than ADP when Juventus were making finals.

    nor is it clear he was more important than Raul when he actually won


    even in some of zidanes best ever champions league games for Real Madrid he was not the standout/stand alone performer
    https://www.worldsoccer.com/world-soccer-latest/raul-best-in-the-world-says-ferguson-49534

    Ajax 1996/97 was not a great team(not even remotely)

    Ajax 1995/96 and Ajax 1996/97 are two completely different sides
    1994/95 was even better

    Ajax that won the CL
    IMG_2264.jpeg


    Ajax that zidane faced
    IMG_2265.jpeg


    You can even forget jari limanens name in that 1996/97 squad
    He was not even 20% the player from seasons prior
    Not even 20%

    that 1996/97 Ajax team is more comparable to your typical mid table PL/la liga team today
    Nothing to see here IMO

    Nothing personal and you are not the only to do this but I really dislike the tendency here to overrate teams based on what they did in seasons prior.

    Real Madrid is not a great team because they are called Real Madrid
    Nor Barcelona,Nor Bayern nor anyone else

    the only thing that dictates that is results.
    Before we get to how great zidane was vs Ajax 1997 it needs to firstly be established why being great vs Ajax 1997 is even meaningful to begin with.
     
  19. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Definitely making this the last post I make on this deviated topic, but maybe for balance it is fair to add this re: a 70s song:
    (5) Is the Eagles song 'Hotel California' about the Church of Satan? - Quora
    Bohemian Rhapsody doesn't sound so wholesome either to be honest!

    Those two did end up in that top 100 of Smooth radio's countdown too, and consistently do that I think. The lyrics do put me off them now to be honest (whatever they actually meant originally) despite the catchy music, albeit I did vote for one Queen song (These Are The Days of our Lives - actually the vibe is nostalgic too though lol with Those Were the Days of our Lives a more common line in it actually; I also voted for Barcelona, the Freddie Mercury duet, once too) and would hope there is no real nefarious meaning to Bohemian Rhapsody (but who knows).
     
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  20. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I’ll definitely be checking out your recommendations

    don’t worry about turning me nostalgic though I have a mind of my own
    While you are ‘retro’ in many things related to football I am probably inclined that way in many things outside of football(fashion aside I will not go that far lol)
     
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  21. CristianoPuskas

    Manchester United
    Portugal
    May 27, 2021
    cruyff overrated.jpg

    JOHAN CRUYF......DISAPPOINTING !

    FADING CRUYFF NOT AS GOOD AS PELE

    "Barcelona did not live up to expectations when they faced Leeds United in last season's European Cup semi-finals. I saw the second leg in Spain, and was extremely disappointed with the performances of Barcelona's leading players, Johan Cruyff especially."

    "Instead of exploiting his pace, control and balance by going forward with the ball and taking on opponents in the penalty area, Cruyff was content to stay in the inside-left position and repeatedly hit speculative, high balls to the far post."

    "I still expected Cruyff to produce something out of the ordinary at least six time during the match. He didn't do so once"

    "From all accounts, he did not show world-class in the match against Liverpool two weeks ago."


     
  22. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #122 carlito86, Jun 17, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2024
    More of Cruyff in the EC for Barcelona(one match)

    failed ‘Cruyff turn’
    IMG_2384.gif

    failed trivela pass
    IMG_2382.gif

    failed backheel pass
    IMG_2386.gif

    failed through ball pass
    IMG_2388.gif


    Failed long ball pass
    IMG_2390.gif

    useless ball hogging
    IMG_2392.gif
     
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  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    In the first game he had an assist against notorious and brutal opponent Leeds. In the whole campaign he had eight open play assists, which, checks notes, is more than someone like Maradona for Napoli in all his European seasons.

    One season later he faced Liverpool in the semi final of the UEFA Cup. Another assist in a tight scoreline. You have probably seen the Shankly quotes where he says Neeskens and Cruijff are the only real quality players in their team.

    It is no secret though 1974-74 and 1975-76 are the two weakest seasons of his Barcelona career. The first and last two were better.
     
  24. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
  25. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    he created some decent chances against leeds, even in his worst days he could create chances for his teammates
    in general i think his 74/75 EC campaign is good but i dont know about laliga
     
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