Yes, you are correct. Gegenpressing / counrerpressing is absolutely not new. At best, the duration that a team can maintain the intensity is longer. Perhaos, but I would need to see the data. I am unconvinced that is even that true.
I think there have been changes and evolutions since Happel his days. He died in 1992 and it is not hard to 'prove' mid-90s Ajax was indeed a move forward across a whole range of key indicators (without necessarily falling into 'Passanaccio'). Things such as the ball, the pitches, the boots and so on have helped. But the biggest leap, since some semi-reliable recording exists, took place between roughly the late 50s and early 70s. Distance covered by players more than doubled. Also in countries that were already 'professional'. Again, I'd refer to this, the 1997 quarter final, when it was ravaged by injuries, departures and poor form (finished only 4th in the league, could have been 7th really). https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7uge9s The curious thing is Happel himself - who spoke with a mixture of Viennese, Dutch and German - referred to "fore-checking" and "gegenpressing" or "counterpressing" when he was in Hamburg. Good that this book supports my previous 'statement' it is if anything really Happel rather than Buckingham or Reynolds. Happel indeed, and this is no myth, took inspiration from other sports, as did other (future) managers really. @feyenoordsoccerfan @Wiliam Felipe Gracek https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-dutch-secret-to-soccer-success-field-hockey-1403045877 Either, way that table of contents of the Siekmann book shows this I see (he changes 'Dutch' into Holland because... it was really Holland, and not the Friesland of Abe Lenstra for example): The Holland School of Total Football History and Analysis - A Literature Study (with a foreword by Stanley Menzo) https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/de-holl...tgh=gQjRvwRYnyACb2-mAMxBrg.2_6.7.ProductTitle General aspects 1. 'Total Football' and 'Holland school' - meaning, origin and terminology 2. The Holland school of total football in cultural and societal perspective 3. Philosophy, system theory and total football 4. The historical influence of Reynolds and Buckingham 5. The influence of the 'Holland school of total football' on abroad; national football styles and cultures 6. Dutch football trainers as export product of the Holland school 7. Playing principles of the Holland school according to Pieter Zwart 8. Special tactics Football visions 9. The football vision of Johan Cruijff: dominance and organized chaos 10. The twelve distinctive characteristics of the Holland school according to Gyuri Vergouw 11. The football vision of Rinus Michels: total football and 'hunting' 12. The football vision of Valeri Lobanovski: 'robot football' 13. The football vision of Arrigo Sacchi: offensive catenaccio and zone pressing 14. The football vision of Louis van Gaal: circulation football, 'doordekken' and provocative pressing 15. The football vision of Pep Guardiola (Barcelona): complete pressing and (no) tiki-taka football 16. The football vision of Pep Guardiola (Bayern Munich): the problem of 'overpressing' 17. The football vision of Jürgen Klopp: gegenpressing and Vollgassfussball 18. Comparison of the football visions of Cruijff, Michels, Lobanovski, Sacchi, Van Gaal, Guardiola and Klopp Practice 19. The profile of the ideal-typical total footballer 20. 'Football is war': fouls and total football 21. These and antithesis: total football and the dialectics of game systems 22. The identity crisis: fall and resurgence of the Dutch total football [here 'Holland' is changed to 'Dutch'... has a reason] 23. Resume and conclusions
@PuckVanHeel Happel mentioned gegenpressing already in 1978 in relation to the Orange Squad, when he talked to iirc an Austrian newspaper. I mentioned it in one of my posts about him many, many years ago.
There is clearly more to this 'forgetfullness'. Something as 'World Soccer' has always been hostile to us. In 1974 they put zero of our players in the World XI. The narratives and historiography are likewise. The possibility to attach certain novelties and concepts to other countries and cultures (including frauds and imposters as Bielsa) is a godsend from heaven. Then decades later they will push us down further from an already low starting position (the Coxes, the whisperers like Tanks ignoring their notes, the 'complete historian' @comme people - with kicker as a "football bible" and World Sucker and The Athcrappic as fantastic outlets). They make narratives about Robben the diver and Sneijder the fata morgana directly after the 2010 final. https://beyondthelastman.com/2013/11/07/eric-battys-world-xis-the-seventies/ 'The Athletic' is also terrible. Dutch fans slandered and smeared throughout euro 2024, and only after elimination there is one appreciative article. We see it too in the Olympics. Only bile, poison and the negative stuff (and when it comes to the child rapist, it now appears, per the Sunday Times, the high profile countries have them in their in ranks too... including 'Great' Britain itself). The Athletic has literally zero appreciative articles for our athletes. Tonnes (well... certainly a handful) of negative ones. You called them out as well a few times - good.... https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/w...m-brazil-and-argentina.2124300/#post-41179483 Even The Guardian (another terrible outlet, the wokist outlet) has appreciative articles and with the Brazilian commentator way more enthousiastic as ours! The Athletic has literally zero but literally a hatful where we get slandered and smeared. For football 8 out of 10 articles are hateful and/or negative too. https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/a...ff-dyer-femke-bol-hurdles-paris-olympics-400m https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/a...d-femke-bol-shacarri-richardson-julien-alfred https://www.si.com/onsi/athlete-lif...ce-goes-viral-after-destroying-team-usa-video (one of the Guardian articles of course with a negative and self-fullfilling-wish angle too) Brazilian commentators at times more positive (and with foretelling expectations as ours) 1819820069687304195 is not a valid tweet id Either way, whether it is football, Formula One or other sports, it is always the same. World Soccer, The Guardian, The Athletic (etc.) are fully hostile or leaning to hostility. With likewise historiography. The marketeers love it when 'gegenpressing' gets attached to being a German football culture 'invention'. It is commercially stupid to frame them in the manner they did with Arjen Robben (one trick pony, diver etc.) or frame them as the bad guys. No, the low countries are perfect for that. Not big enough in a money sense or supporters sense (language a factor here), but prominent and present enough to put them in that fall guy and bad guy role (at the moment, also top 10 in the medal table for the Olympics, as was the case in previous editions).
@PuckVanHeel It seems the search engine has a limit in years going back. I tried to search my Happel/gegenpress posts, but didnot get beyond 2017.
There is some (inch of) truth in that bold part. They fail to see and appreciate things until it's adopted by themselves (and have more resources). Then the narrative is reset and the starting point is placed at Buckinham or the Hungarians (themselves FIFA royalty and part of the establishment; all those FIFA awards and medals they got and 'fixers' as Szepesi, Solti and Ostreicher for them). They fail to see Hazard and Robben were efficient and 'high-rate' dribblers, until they themselves put it into practice. Do you know where that maybe also happens? In the case of the horses. There are many more Dutch horses at the Olympics than riders. They're bought for tens of millions by foreigners (one nationally famous example is 'Totilas'; bought just before the 2012 Olympics by a foreign consortium, to prevent a surefire win for Oranje). The Olympics is of course also a case of (Cold War) power and money. The USA and companies is responsible for something like 65, maybe 75% of the total money involved, so of course they have a special say on which sports and events are medal events. The scheduling too obviously, because their broadcasters bring in most of the money. Which sports have Olympic status. It's well known that without the USA the Olympics cannot exist and be organized, quite possibly. And this obviously also translates into some forms of high politics like we have possibly seen around the 1988 case of Ben Johnson (and especially what happened in 1984, with cover-ups and boycott by USSR because they couldn't dock a lab ship on USA shores). The movie 'Starship Troopers' by our own Verhoeven is a parody on the militarized culture that (often) persist. https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...of-the-most-misunderstood-movies-ever/281236/ "In 2014, it was revealed by Don Catlin, an American known as the ‘godfather’ of modern anti-doping, that the IOC had also intervened to cover-up positive tests for EPO at the 2002 Salt Lake Winter Olympics." https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/athletics-olympic-coverup-1378797.html https://www.thetimes.com/article/drugs-in-sport-shamed-5wmfvsphl7q https://www.francsjeux.com/en/2020/07/27/Grigory-Rodchenkov-breaks-the-wall-of-silence-again/69599/ Just a few days ago (and not for the first time). US lawmakers threaten cuts to Olympic anti-doping funds By Michael Martina July 30, 2024 WASHINGTON, July 30 (Reuters) - A bipartisan group of U.S. lawmakers on Tuesday threatened to cut U.S. funding for the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), accusing it of failing to properly investigate alleged doping by Chinese Olympic swimmers. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-lawmakers-threaten-cuts-olympic-anti-doping-funds-2024-07-30/ ------------------ In such sporting world you need to be inventive and clever, if anything, and then there is the risk it doesn't get noticed and appreciated until it does... and they have another angle to bash you down (and hark back to the days of 2004 when they didn't rate you either, and make a negative comparison to 2024)
I’ve asked before and I’ll ask it again, keep your posts to the topic. And stop tagging me into (or referring to me) in your various conspiracy theories. If you want to talk about a supposed conspiracy against the Netherlands, do it in another forum.
For those who like dribblings stats and take it too seriously, these are all players with multiple 10+ successful dribbles in a game in top 5 leagues since 2016 (sofascore): 1. Neymar (15) - 2x14, 2x12, 6x11, 5x10 2. Messi (13) - 15, 2x12, 4x11, 6x10 3. Traore (12) - 16, 14, 12, 6x11, 3x10 4. Maximin (8) - 15, 11, 6x10 5. Hazard (6) - 2x13, 4x10 6. Dembele (5) - 14, 2x13, 2x10 7. Ben Arfa (5) - 5x10 8. Boufal (4) - 12, 11, 2x10 9. Doku (3) - 2x12, 11 10. Zaha (2) - 12, 11 11. Sanchez (2) - 11, 10 11. Masuaku (2) - 11, 10 11. Boga (2) - 11, 10 11. Harit (2) - 11, 10 15. Sterling (2) - 2x10 15. Vazquez (2) - 2x10 15. Iličić (2) - 2x10 15. Fekir (2) - 2x10 *players from 2018 season ligue 1 possibly have more, I am not sure. If we are going to entertain stats as a true indicator of the best dribblers, we have to entertain Traore as a generational dribbler and subsequently one of the best of all time. Also palyers like Maximin, etc. Although there is an overlap between successful dribbles and true dribbling ability, successful dribbles stat favors a certain type of players who are not necessarily that great dribbles.
You know producing alot of paintings isnot going to make you a Rembrandt. Also a phenomenal painter with a few brush strokes tells story others can't match with a canvas full of paint. In other words the true great dribbler does it when it matters with impact.