Top 250 Footballers (1950- )

You could add Bruno Martini and Steve Mandanda as well.

 

Among English players I'd probably stick to (or go more towards now that the pool is expanded) suggesting Tony Woodcock and Trevor Steven, as as much as I did like the styles of Smicer and Degryse for example I might be more inclined to lean towards the English pair ahead to be honest as players all in all (peak/career).

More impressive work by Peru to expand out his HMs though anyway.

 

As clarification though, I don't say Degryse shouldn't be given an HM (just that I think Woodcock can even merit one more), and I wouldn't object to Smicer getting one either (just that I would err towards Steven ahead - also to look at it from a different perspective I'm tending to think Steven can merit one as much as Douglas perhaps, or certainly as much or a little moreso probably IMO compared to team-mate Sheedy - it's fine margins maybe though as I'd still think of a David Rocastle or Darren Anderton for examples as not miles behind Steven among English right wingers/midfielders....and there has to be a cut-off with the HMs, even if there would be different individual choices as to who makes it and who doesn't).

 

I suppose for what it's worth I can add that my impression could be to put Mike Channon in rather than or ahead of these though potentially:
SUPPORT STRIKERS

HM LEE, Francis
HM SHERINGHAM, Teddy (?)

STRIKERS

T400 LOFTHOUSE, Nat (?)
HM CHIVERS, Martin
HM COLE, Andy (?)
HM FOWLER, Robbie
HM HATELEY, Mark
HM HUNT, Roger
HM HURST, Geoff (?)
HM TAYLOR, Tommy
HM VARDY, Jamie
HM WRIGHT, Ian

Maybe also Paul Merson ahead of some of them, albeit I'd be more inclined towards classifying him as trequartista or left winger even, slightly over support striker perhaps....

Pes Miti del Calcio - View topic - Mick CHANNON 1975-1977
https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/best-technique.2094729/page-25#post-43490866

I suppose there can be various cases where a player doesn't play a lot for the national team (or at all) - Merson is a case actually where he didn't do much of note for England himself or play very many games: I'll refrain from suggesting John McGovern (maybe I named too many Forest players already! - not that I think I'm doing it unreasonably though tbh), but how about Bernd Durnberger perhaps? Another I wonder about, who did play for the NT but not a lot, is Odilon Polleunis (perhaps his peak was quite short though? - although I think it started in 1960s surely anyway or even his true outright peak may have been in that decade actually):
Pes Miti del Calcio - View topic - Odilon POLLEUNIS 1970-1975

 

Anyway, not to try to insist on changes Peru, but to help explain why (aside from the footage I've watched) I could lean towards Steven over Sheedy for example (remembering as well how much Marseille paid to sign Steven):
https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/p...ivision-ratings.2037606/page-43#post-42703195
https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/p...ivision-ratings.2037606/page-44#post-42704785
https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/p...ivision-ratings.2037606/page-26#post-41218176
(Sheedy very slightly ahead that season, but while he made the PFA Team of the Year also he wasn't on the PFA main shortlist and Steven did come 3rd in the PFA Young Player voting behind Hughes, and Waddle who made the PFA team and main shortlist himself too - and likewise for 1986/87 Sheedy was on the PFA Team of Season but ratings wise Steven came top of all players with The People, [while neither Sheedy nor Steve Coppell were in top 3 any season], and he came 2nd with Starfacts ratings too as Paul W showed on that thread)
People ratings for 85/86
8586peoplerts-png.232210 (725×436)
(And at mid-season via link below)
https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/p...ivision-ratings.2037606/page-29#post-41239386
For 1983/84 as shown on DBS Calcio Match had them very close (but Steven a little ahead) on average ratings although Steven didn't play close to the maximum games (perhaps not enough to qualify for The People's top ratings list, though Sheedy was among the midfielders on that)

Re: Channon maybe these are useful to see also, but I'd say too see that thread and/or DBS Calcio to get an idea about his relatively high ratings/reputation for 80/81, 82/83 and 83/84 in the veteran stage of his career (even though due to lower form at Man City etc maybe his longevity isn't a major plus overall):
https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/1969-70-british-team-of-the-season.1794502/#post-37807321


(Perhaps those votes were a bit England-centric so players like Dalglish might not have been rewarded much at that stage, but anyway in those two 1972/73 and 1973/74 seasons you can see Channon was the most selected forward player)
https://www.dbscalcio.it/player_profile.php?player_id=55373

 

Trying to be a bit more helpful re: 1986/87 (and it does show Sheedy still close to Steven, although we don't know his Match magazine average until a spreadsheet is created for that season, and Steven is among the top midfielders with Match too as you can see):
Starfacts ratings (Thanks to Paul W, and Pavlin too)
20211017_153932-jpg.204822 (933×1920)
20211017_153937-jpg.204823 (933×1920)
People ratings
0-png.232872 (680×501)
"People XI for 1986/87 then:
Beasant (Wimbledon) 6.89; Anderson (Arsenal) 7.07, Lawrenson (Liverpool) 6.92, Bruce (Norwich) 7.03, Winterburn (Wimbledon) 6.89; Steven (Everton) 7.28, Cockerill (Southampton) 7.16, McNab (Man City) 7.10, Sheedy (Everton) 7.09; Clive Allen (Tottenham) 7.04, Rush (Liverpool) 7.03"
Match magazine ratings
https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/p...ivision-ratings.2037606/page-17#post-40334128

 

Oh, ok, sure!

I should know Woodcock's nickname, being a Forest fan, but I think maybe it was just 'Woody' (nothing to do with Toy Story obviously!). Anderton's most common nickname was 'Sicknote' I think, because of his injuries, but overall he did still have several good seasons and racked up a good amount of assists. But yeah you got the other two (Trevor Francis had also been called Tricky Trev himself I think though already, or he gets referred to that by some older Forest fans anyway I know)!

Yeah, if you think Rocastle and Anderton can be good additions too I don't object. The honourable mentions list can end up being very long, but it's probably a good thing that you have such a wide selection.

 

Difficult to say, because he played in the relatively small team of AJ Auxerre for most of his carreer.

He won the *France Football* Étoile d'Or trophy in 1986-87 (awarded to the player with the highest average star rating across French league matches), and in 1990-91 again.
He was part of the France squad that went 19 matches unbeaten (between 1989 and 1992). He was the first goalkeeper to win every match of a European Championship qualifying campaign (EC 92 qualifiers).

Martini was unlucky to play during a transitional phase (post-Platini, pre-Zidane). But he was more than 'just' a transitional GK. He was as good as Bats IMHO.

 

Nice work Peru - I think Lozano and Hernandez, now that the pool is further expanded, do make sense as Mexican entries too yeah.

Don't forget Trevor Steven of course! Well, you already confirmed he will be in, but anyway I think right winger will be the best role even though he could play as central midfielder and sometimes even supporting forward I think.

I would put Woodcock as supporting forward to be honest, but Channon at striker is probably fair enough (though he had aspects of supporting forward, and at times did play as a wing forward - in 1980/81 for example he tended to be right forward in a 4-3-3 type system....but yeah striker is fine for him probably overall). I kind of wonder about box to box for Durnberger being the best option overall maybe, but yeah DM is maybe better for McGovern (he was more the anchor midfielder in a 4-4-2 anyway even if slightly box to box/CM still - deep-lying playmaker is a possibility but I wouldn't say DM is wrong as such anyway).

To be honest maybe I didn't really do a full comparison of players I had in mind myself (maybe I started to but then diverted away from that) so I can't be sure I wouldn't have more in mind, but I think Ivan Gudelj is one you didn't have included isn't he? It would seem to me he probably could meet the threshold of 3 seasons as top 100 player or as top 10 central midfielder (box to box maybe being the best option overall for his role I'd think). during his best phase in the 1980s, even though his career was cut short.

 

Well... Dembele earned his inclusion, didn't he ?

 

Nice work Peru. Re: Lizarazu I guess this video that has popped up on Twitter shows pretty well my idea btw (especially regarding dribbling/skills on the ball in attack, and interventions/interceptions in defence - other matches would highlight him more for passing combinations in attack and blocks/coverage deep in defence I suppose for example though) - so in other words aligns with my impression that he can be higher-rated among left backs, at least at peak (although actually for enjoyment purposes I'd prefer to watch Gordillo for example, and probably Bossis too).
ً on X: "Bixente Lizarazu vs Barcelona (A) - 1998/99 UCL https://t.co/RxR0pKuCwe" / X

This is quite an interesting one re: (relatively) early Nils Liedholm btw, but I guess these videos (also ones for Nordahl, Gren and Skoglund from the game - for me based on what is shown Liedholm was generally playing the best or showing the most promise, although of course Nordahl's goal was significant; Gren probably playing the least well on what is shown I think and not really living up to that comment about '1950s Maradona' but it'd be unfair to make a verdict based on this alone obviously and some other highlights, plus mainly the descriptions of him in text including/especially before he left Sweden, and also the inclusions of him by some Italian publication as top inside right or consideration of him by France Football for European XI around this time indicate he had a more impressive level than indicated by the clips from this game) are taken from possibly a continuous 27 minutes broadcast of a segment of the game rather than from the best 27 minutes of the whole game probably....
1950-51 Nils Liedholm vs Inter Milan A (Serie A)
Not to say it is massively impressive by Liedholm himself or something (also for him some other brief highlights or clips from that era show more I'd say for sure - but yeah 27 minutes is less than a third of the game and for example Bozsik vs England in 1953 is a very good performance, but taking the opening 27 minutes say wouldn't show that particularly well I think - this Milan vs Inter footage is from more like the closing 27 minutes I would think though, but with the Nordahl goal added in first...., from a live broadcast that showed the goal and then end of the game maybe?), but interesting to get a relatively long match footage from that season and have somebody make videos from it anyway....

 

This could seem like I'm favouring English players over Irish equivalents (after my Trevor Steven compared to Kevin Sheedy post) but that's not the intention anyway: I noticed that here (based on 1999 polling) Peter Thompson ended in a Bill Shankly era Liverpool XI as voted on by Liverpool fans in the local newspaper, while Steve Heighway didn't:
Shankly's Greatest Team - LFChistory.net

I guess it depends with these things a bit on how many fans saw the players, because more recently in these polls Heighway placed higher (more fans who'd remember him but not Thompson could have voted relatively speaking these times though I guess):
100 PWSTK – the 2006 list - Liverpool FC
100 Players Who Shook The Kop (2013) | Liverpool FC Wiki | Fandom

Anyway, I'm not really making a claim for yet another English winger/wide midfielder to be included, but just thought it could be interesting to point out....

 

I'll only discuss selected issues.
1. The nomination for Baba Yara Seidu is completely unjustified. He was a local star from the late 1950s/early 1960, before Ghana NT first continental success, and has never been verified (but in the WC Quali 1962 although he didn't score a single goal , and Ghana didn't score a single goal in the decisive two-legged tie against Morocco). ) . The level of so-called "black Africa" was low at the time. Furthermore, his career was quickly ended due to an injury after the accident, and he died early too (which often creates more of a legend). It seems that he relied mainly on spectacular dribbling against weak opponents How does his nomination compare to the absence of players from that era, for example, Hassan Akesbi (173 more Ligue 1 goals than Fontaine) or Kamamoto (who also came from amateur football, but his international achievements, including his appearances at the 1968 Olympics, indicate that he was not far behind Cha Bum-Keun in quality)?. You could say that his Cameroonian counterpart at the time was Samuel Mbappe-Leppe (and in my opinion, he's also rightly misplaced), but he undoubtedly surpassed Baba Yara in longevity, led the club to win its first continental competition, and played more major international matches in the 1960s . It's still hard to say he surpassed mate Eugene N Jolea in quality (he was verified in Europe)., but Ghanaian Baba Yara for sure. CAF awarded the Legend Award to Mbappe Leppe, among others, Baba Yara did not receive it
2. Your big mistake is nominating Teodor Aniola. Believe me, I'm from Poland; in other countries, I can make obvious mistakes, but I know what (i.e., how low) the league level was in Poland shortly after the war, and I know how he was assessed relative to other Polish footballers of that era. He's not in the top 250 Polish players All Time; he was just a local star. Also, look at his very poor international record (7 caps - 2 goals); he was often called up to the B squad. Of course in NT , he had a strong rival in Cieslik, but there were three places to fill in positions 8, 9, 10, and Aniola mostly played as a link (8, 10)

 

Still no Dembélé ? 6 goals and 2 assists in the last WC ain't too bad

 

Since George Cohen, Trevor Steven and Arthur Numan are all in, the empty space in the right back category must be for Gary Stevens, IMO, I think.