In copa nissan: river even joined competition late vs Independiente (after indfependiente had 2 games vs rosario) and atl. nacional had 2 teams only, NO way they can be such a great team by Beating low ranked Pasto and LDU de ecuador..... back to why so many bracas and argies, they also started early to eliminate themselves to bring parity to the Nissan cup.....
They should change the format... Maybe more teams from the other countries, lets say 48 clubs, 6 from Argentina and 6 from Brasil, 4 from each country, except 2 from venezuela and 2 from mexico. And play the two tournaments in the way UEFA has the champions league and the Uefa cup, where only top teams get to libertadores and teams left behind play for sudamericana? Anyway they were just trying a different format and making it favorable to the top two countries in the continent.
I dont think they joined late, I think both River and Boca had a bye in the first round. You also said that Quito was the best in Ecuador and now I think your opinion changed..
Gente, medio fuera de tema y a riesgo de que me manden a cagar: Una opinion "biased" en español es una opinión sesgada.
New Rankings, as I beleive they have shifted.... 10.Cruzeiro (#1 in Brasilerao-Libertadores within sight) 9.Sao Pablo (Blew by The Strongest at Bolivia) 8.Boca (solo 2pts de ventaja en Liga local) 7.Deportivo Cali (Unos de los favoritos para la Mustang II) 6.Santos (Eliminados de la Sudamericana pero de buen rendimientos en el Brasileirao) 5.River Plate (Clasificación apretada en la Sudamericana) 4.Atl.Nacional (Está levantando, otro favorito para la Mustang II) 3.Nacional (Uru) (Buen puesto en el ranking de la IFFHS) 2.Independiente Medellín (Clasificaron a los cuadrangulares) 1.Cienciano (Probabaron que cuando se le dejan jugar, juega) *(drop from Rankings)Toluca (Mx) (Tienen que ser buenos?, quedaron campeones de la CONCACAF. 14tos en tabla Mexicana.)
New rankings...not yet... Lets wait for sudamericana semifinals and for Local tournaments to get closer to the end. Nacional is on the verge of being a top 10 team.. Maybe is the most improved team during the second half of the year and it is playing great football, but do not celebrate too early.... Prior to Sudamericana's quarterfinals: 1. Boca Juniors 48 2. Santos 42 3. River Plate 28 4. Cobreloa 20 5. Cruzeiro 20 6. Colo-colo 15 7. Libertad 15 8. Monterrey 15 9. Once Caldas 15 10. Strongest 15 11. Nacional Montevideo 14 12. Alianza Lima 10 13. America de Cali 10 14. Independiente Medellin 10 15. Sporting Cristal 10 16. Atletico Nacional 9 17. Deportivo Cali 9 18. Gremio 9 19. Morelia 9 20. Fluminense 8 Current "scientific rankings": 1 Boca Juniors 48 2 Santos 42 3 River Plate 31 4 Cobreloa 20 5 Cruzeiro 20 6 Colo-colo 15 7 Libertad 15 8 Monterrey 15 9 Once Caldas 15 10 Strongest 15 11 Nacional Montevideo 14 12 Atletico Nacional 12 13 Alianza Lima 10 14 America de Cali 10 15 Independiente Medellin 10 16 Sporting Cristal 10 17 Deportivo Cali 9 18 Gremio 9 19 Morelia 9 20 Cienciano 8 By the end of the year the likes of Once Caldas, America, Morelia would have taken a big hit by poor performances and would be out of top 20.... Atletico Nacional is up and coming, if they win the semifinal they will be in the top ten, and if they win in LT they'll be top 5. Boca is most likely to be the top team in America again if they win LT.
Re: New rankings...not yet... we'll just make new rankings then, only 4 teams left in Sudamericana, I think its only fair to those 4 teams that have made it this far to be in the rankings, and for the teams that were riding their Copa Libertadores glory to start coming down, lets face it, the teams that have taken this tournament seriously have improved a lot. I stand by my rankings, and they will stay like that till we have a new Sudamericana champion.....
Ranks, ranks, ranks If things keep going the way they're now, this is my guess for top 10 teams by the end of the year 1 Boca Juniors 2 Santos 3 Cruzeiro 4 River Plate 5 Deportivo Cali 6 Atletico Nacional 7 Libertad 8 Sao Paolo 9 Independiente Medellin 10 Cienciano If Nacional wins both Sudamericana and LT will be bumped into 3rd or 4th. Boca and Santos are almost imposible to get down. America is out of top 10 and Sudamericana's Libertad and Cienciano got a strong bump into the top 10.... Lets say that I do not buy my own rank till December 20 or so... Before I leave on vacation we'll see who is in the top 10 of Americas...
After the "Copa sudamericana" semi-finals we'll see if River Plate is (#4) and Sao Paolo (#8). Remember that Cienciano tied Santos in Brasil and beat them in Peru. What has River Plate done Arg. League: - 5-4-4 record (#7 in Argentina). - After 13 games, they haven't won 3 games in a row. Copa Sudamericana: - Beat Independiente (5 loses & 1 tie in their last 6 games in Arg) - Beat Libertad 2-1 overall (Libertad won their first two rounds by penalties) That's why I don't think River Plate should be in the Top 10 clubs (We'll see what happens when they play Sao Paolo) In comparison look at San Lorenzo - Lost 3-2 to "The Strongest" in Copa Sudamericana - Their record in their last 10 games in Arg is (8-1-1) - 2nd place in Arg. 2 points from Boca Juniors.
River Plate has to defeat Boca juniors to still have hopes in the local tournament. A draw would not help the millonarios.
River Plate reached quarterfinals in Libertadores, Semifinals in Sudamericana and they are the current Argentinian champions till next december, even if they're seventh in current tournament... Looks like a team consistently performing at top levels to me, even if they are in a drought right now....For me they're in the top ten, even if they can drop to 9th or 10th.... San Lorenzo did not reach the quarterfinals neither in Libertadores nor Sudamericana, and they're second right now in their LT that has at least 6 matchdays before we can tell who is who. If they're champions they can crack into top 10, if not they have a marginal chance as runner-ups.... If Sao Paolo wins the semifinal match will have locked their top ten finish... If they lose they still can be 10th, but it is a close call.... Remember, Libertadores is THE CUP. Sudamericana is getting interesting but is still "the other tournament"....
San Lorenzo is still last year's Sudamerica champion, beating Atl.Nacional 4 - 0 in Medellín....and they are doing pretty good in LT, but I wouldn't rank them top 10 right now, they only till recently have only caught up to within 2 points of Boca, they are like 11th. In my rankings I put River in 5th, they are doing pretty bad right now, but they could stunt everyone in Sudemericana.
For me San Loro is like 13th/14th behind Strongest, Cobreloa y Nacional (uru) out of top ten, and River most likely will drop a few positions but will still be in the top 10 at the end of the year. Maybe if the Loros become Argentinian Champions I'll put them in the top ten....
that brings joy to you dosen't? anyway, I want to wait till Dec 4th, but yea Nacional dropped to 10 in my list, while Cienciano up to 8th? Nacional without Totono are lost sheep, there were very nervous and "les dieron el aguinaldo antes de que naciera el Niño dios."
That's why I think that ranking now is too early The real ranks will come out around december 20th when you have all the national champions, the sudamericana and the libertadores to take account off.... A real top ten team is one that keeps its performance uniform during the whole year, or at least six months. Burst of good games and then sudden falls are not what a top team is supposed to do... On the other hand even great teams fall through slumps here and there and furthermore, I think Nacional was playing great football, only thing is that unlike Boca did, they did not realize that it is almost impossible to play two tournaments with the same players, and if you add National teams requirements you have to make a choice... Some Nacional fans ripped Boca when they brought an alternate team to Medellin and made a feast of a 4-0 against an alternate team. Now, shouldn't we, non Nacional fans apply the same measurement here? I do not want to rip Nacional, just think it is kind of funny how things change in one week Furthermore, Sudamericana as Boca knew is not very important yet, and if Nacional wins or is runner-up in Colombian League I will consider them in the top ten, almost regardless of Sudamericana...
Sudamerican is brand new, it will take at leat several more years for it to grow a little more, for the "big" clubs to start showing restpect for it, like they do for Libertadores.
Re: That's why I think that ranking now is too early We actually defeated boca's "alternate team" 4-1, not 4-0 like you said. How did things change in one week? Its the same team, no Grisales means that the team is going to have 2 less players on the field..thats it. They lost at home by a goal but lets not start celebrating nacional's elimination quite yet bc there is one game let and nacional hasnt lost away in this tournament yet. So until that time comes why dont you keep your hole shut..you're doing all of us a favor. gracias comando.
Re: Can I change my ranks? YES, you can do that for now Keep track where they stand in the local tourney, cienciano should be #10 and verdeeee #11 ahhhh while you are working at it, try to move Millos and tolima to the top 50 TEAMS OF THE REGION! IF that is still possible..........
Re: Re: Can I change my ranks? jajajajaja You are totally right in that one. I guess since the years of Eldorado, or maybe in the late 80's Millitos have not been in the top 10, not even in Colombia..... And it will take 10 or 20 years to see them making a run in Libertadores....If Millos advance to Libertadores, they could be in the second round, meaning they could be in the top 20 of South America, but asking for more is very unrealistic... Meanwhile, I have to bow to our top 10 hopefulls from Colombia, Nacional, DIM and Cali. There is no point arguing about it....
My ranks for the end of the year 1. Boca Juniors 2. Santos 3. Cruzeiro 4. Cienciano 5. Cobreloa 6. Deportivo Cali 7. Independiente Medellin 8. Sao Paolo 9. America de Cali 10. River Plate Boca, Santos y Cruzeiro no requieren explicacion. Cienciano gano sudamericana e hizo buena libertadores. Cobreloa triunfo en su pais e hizo buena libertadores. Medellin y America estan basicamente por ser semifinalistas en la libertadores. Cali hizo muy buen año, aunque al final no gano nada. Sao Paolo es el tercer mejor equipo de Brasil y animo Libertadores y Sudamericana. River, si me lo van a criticar, pero llego a la final de la sudamericana, fue campeon del apertura en Argentina, aunque tuvo un segundo semestre para olvidar. Otros que estan cerca: Libertad, Pachuca, The Strongest, Atletico Nacional, Peñarol y Tigres
Re: My ranks for the end of the year what does this mean? that Cienciano will be in Libertadores 2004?
I told you all that River Plate sucks. They couldn't beat Cienciano in their own stadium and they almost lost to them. Besides they got whooped by Boca Juniors during "El super-clasico" played at River's stadium. River Plate also ended Aperture in Argentina in #17 out of 20 teams. The only good thing they've done in the last 4-5 months was to beat Sao Paulo.