Tom Sermanni fired - discuss

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by Blaze20, Apr 6, 2014.

  1. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    The Fed cannot simply unilaterally change a CBA. It is the product of a labor negotiation and covered by labor laws.
     
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  2. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    I believe in 2009 the CBA negotiations were re-open when the WPS was formed.
     
  3. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    If the union is trying to enforce the 24 or whatever limit, then there is a problem.

    But that would have no precedent in sports labor history that I can think of-- generally the union's business is to get and keep as many people employed and members as possible. Usually such limits are formalized to protect managment's budget predictability.
     
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  4. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    #904 kernel_thai, Apr 24, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
    And the passage ur talking about is to protect the players not the Fed. The reason they limit the amount of contracts is because a large part of an NT players pay is based on teams bonuses like wins in friendlies, making rosters for big tournaments, place in big tournaments, so on. If ur a contracted player and ur depending on being on rosters to make this extra money, u want to keep the contract pool as small as possible. The fed just pays out x amount of dollars and does care if its to 20 players or 50.
     
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  5. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    The limit benefits the players with full contracts who also happen to be the rank and file...what is troubling is this doesnt necessarily benefit things like winning a WC.
     
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  6. skybolt

    skybolt Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Are these 1-year contracts or do they automatically renew if the USSF decides to release a player from their contract for a specific reason? For instance, if someone like A-Rod decides to get married or if Lepeilbet is injured, perhaps the USSF cannot unilaterally terminate their contract after 1 year without probable cause.
     
  7. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    I believe the Fed contracts r 1 year contracts...there is no reason to have any more than that because it's not like if u dont like the way ur Fed is treating u u can go play for another country...well maybe Leroux can
     
  8. skybolt

    skybolt Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Ok sounds good. However, if someone is injured or having a baby will the Fed be obligated to renew their contract due to labor laws?
     
  9. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Presumably they cannot be terminated during injury or pregnancy. That's more a matter of human decency than anything else...

    One would hope that the Fed is smart enough to not sign any long term contracts. One would hope, in fact that they are smart enough to not sign any that are for more than a year... dead money kills any sort of professional team, and it is hard to believe that management that is tied to a pool that is limited to 24 FTE would tie their own hands that way.
    I mean, it obviously is easy for some folks here, but some of us believe that the average IQ is much higher than others do.

    I have been guessing that the first quarter of the calendar year is the last quarter of the contract year, and that non-contract players called in during it are in effect auditioning for contracts, in which case the, IMO not very extreme, turnover was reasonable-- a "look at three, pick one, discard one of the elders" procedure.
     
  10. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    If it were me, I'd set it up so that a contract expiring during a rehab or pregnancy was not automatically renewed, but that salary and benefits involved continued for a specified duration after. One could actually probably get insurance to cover such an event and control the expense futher that way.

    I suppose one could also guarantee the individual player a further invitation to audition for another contract as well.
    Certainly the handling of A-Rod suggests some such mechanism; she's as much a legacy as an asset at this point.
     
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  11. skybolt

    skybolt Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    If you are correct with the first quarter prediction, perhaps this is one of the reasons why Sermanni was let go so suddenly. If existing player contracts are running out, to be replaced at the choosing of a head coach you want to get rid of anyway, maybe it's a decision best left to the new coach so they're not stuck with Mew2 for another year. :)
     
  12. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    I think what was renegotiated was what portion of the residency contract would be picked up by the league and what part by the USSF.

    That was part of the original 2006 CBA if the league was formed.
     
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  13. ForeverLOST108

    ForeverLOST108 Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Orlando
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, he mentioned in his interview here that he only had 12 players in camp up until the day before the Australia game last fall. Specifically mentioned he had contractual restrictions with bringing in other players.
     
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  14. skybolt

    skybolt Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Another question I have is if the coach is obligated to call in contract players to every camp unless they're not available for whatever reason (injury, sickness, personal issues, playing overseas, maternity leave, don't feel like it, etc.). For instance, if let's say Player X has a contract and is eager to show up for camp, but the coach decides to call up someone else instead, is this acceptable? Is there such a player? Is this part of the CBA agreement so that the contract players can earn their bonus money? I guess it doesn't really matter if the coach can call up 28 instead of 26 players to camp. Even if let's say Sermanni didn't like A-Rod, he could've always benched her.
     
  15. skybolt

    skybolt Member

    Dec 16, 2011
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    In all honesty, the more I think about this whole contract situation the more I'm starting to understand Tom Sermanni's revolving door approach with the young talent. It seems that the USSF basically picked the 24 players as a start-up for the NWSL and based their decision on which players were on the Olympic team (as well as the alternates). Perhaps they also gave Sermanni the option to pick a couple more players due to existing injuries to current contract players. Now the problem Sermanni faced is that he basically had 2 picks, which he used on Dunn and probably Brian when the time came. In the meantime, all he could do is call-up as many young players as possible to get a glimpse of them until some of these existing contracts expired. Perhaps Sermanni couldn't wait to replace RVH, A-Rod, Boxx, LePeilbet, Cox, etc. with new talent, but had to wait until their contracts expired. For all we know Johnston, Hagen and Tymrak may have been next on his list to be given full contracts, but he just had to go thru the motions until the existing contract situation worked its way thru.
     
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  16. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    And Im not really sure how the residency portion works...there wasnt supposed to be any residency last year as per contract so did the NWSL pay come out of the players lump sum pay? There is residency for the next three years so will their NWSL pay be in addition to their schedule tier pay? It very vague.

    As to maternity, there is a provision in the CBA for paid maternity leave and Ive heard it's at 50% pay.
     
  17. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    Yes, the maternity was 50%. Of course, with the new CBA we don't know 50% of what...
     
  18. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    50% maternity?!? :eek: What sort of program was Sermanni running?
     
  19. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Jill was Tom's boss. She wasn't pushed aside. They were filling a vacancy.
     
  20. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Just another odd move. If they were preparing to fire Sermanni, why bring in a new assistant 13 days before? Wouldnt u want the new coach to have some say on who his/her assistant was?
     
  21. South American

    Aug 3, 2008
    Jill was Tom's boss really so did she fire him?
     
  22. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    I think you have it backwards. Jill Ellis' title is development director, which puts her in charge of development and scouting youth players.

    The folks who generally report to Development directors are scouts.


    April Heinrich's title is technical director, which in most programs puts her in charge of all aspects of soccer, at least on the women's side. Coaches report to technical directors, as do development people. I don't see it being any different in the USSF.

    Here is from their dual hiring announcement. While the announcement emphasises the youth programs for both, only April is mentioned in relation to the full team.

    Jill, of course, was an assistant for a while under Pia and Tom.

     
  23. Game-Ball

    Game-Ball Member

    Jan 17, 2014
    Club:
    Ottawa
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    US WNT is the crown jewel of women's soccer and in part floats the new professional league. At the moment they are like an ultra big club team which belongs to the Fed. A lot of salaries, promo and sponsorship revolve around it so when they fail at Algarve ( 7th place ) and lose a game 0 - 5 to Denmark and the vets are confused about the direction of the team ... It will be interesting to see what happens next and how long they will keep Jill Ellis involved.

    I think North America needs a successful US WNT to keep the pro league momentum going. Fans are so fickle over here and haven't quite crossed over to become fans of "the game". In large part they simply enjoy winning and the smiling faces of the poster girls.

    In the end Professional women's sport requires it to be part "business" and part "Fed funded" to grow and stabilize. As the league grows there will be more teams to help young players develop which will change the way the WNT is selected. There will be fewer "lifers" and the years between WC will see more player rotation.

    To get to this point the Fed has got to keep the ship sailing and all it's crew and passengers happy through to the 2015 WC. For many it will be a Swansong close to home.
     
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  24. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

    Jul 4, 2000
    Upper 90 of nowhere
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    well, she was his assistant, and kind of above him in some versions of a Fed org chart, it certainly shows the dysfunctional set up TS was working in (and anyone else would be stepping into).
     
  25. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member+

    Apr 9, 2008
    I'm not sure if Gustavvson is going to let the team showcase their current level of drama and sense of humor.
    The team has gotten away with it for years, from laid-back coaching (Pia and then Sermanni, plus Ellis).

     
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