Tolerance to shirt tugging

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Quakes for life, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. Quakes for life

    May 18, 2010
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    First time for me to post, but I have been reading the boards for a few years and really appreciate the wisdom that others share. It has been a great learning experience and I have tried lots of ideas that I have read on this board with the goal to be a more complete soccer referee.

    Background: I have been refereeing for 5 years, and my goal was to upgrade from grade 8 to 7 this year. I passed the fitness test and written test a few months ago, and only need to pass the assessment on a U17 or higher match. There have not been lots of opportunities to get on those games, either as center or AR, but have recently managed to AR a few and center one U18.

    In that U18 D1 match, one team was doing quite a bit of shirt tugging, not just to prevent the player from getting around them, but even after they were already passed them moving towards goal. At the lower age levels I don't have much tolerance to shirt tugging and may whistle quickly if I am not taking away an opportuntity to play advantage, and admonish the player and if it persists, card them. But at this level I waited to see if the player with the ball could play thorugh it. If the player lost the ball I whistled for a foul. The players who were doing the shirt-tugging complained, as did the coach of that team - implying that I was calling the game too tightly for that age group.

    So I thought I would open this up to gain the perspective of those who have more experience doing higher age/level matches. What is your tolerance for shirt tugging? Wasn't there a directive a few years ago that it was an automatic yellow? Has that changed? When? Why? If one team is doing it and the other team is not doing it, does that change how you call it?
     
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  2. BlackBart

    BlackBart Member

    Mar 22, 2011
    What was the reaction of the players who were being fouled?
    Were they playing thru the shirt tugs?
    Losing the ball?
    Were they looking at you and wanting the call?
    Were frustrations levels rising?
    Even if the team being fouled didn't want the calls, were you talking to the fouling team? Knock it off. Leave the shirts alone. Etc.

    Watch how the players are reacting. Talk to them Call some fouls. Issue cards as needed, including Persistent Infringement.
     
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  3. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member+

    Apr 13, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I don't usually put too much credence into complaints from just one team that I'm calling the game too tight.

    Holding, including the shirt, gets called from me when it takes the offended player off balance, checks their speed, or turns their torso. This is a tighter standard than causing the offended player to lose the ball, so if anything, I would wonder if you aren't being too lenient.

    A good way to tell how you are doing is to watch the reactions of the offended team. Do they act surprised or bemused when you award a FK? Then you're probably calling too tight. Are they getting frustrated when you decline to call a foul? Too loose.
     
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  4. njref

    njref Member

    Mar 29, 2003
    New Jersey
    I find that around here most players at U-17 really don't like the shirt tugging and it leads to other problems. It is one of those "little" things that tick players off - and that some players do, knowing it ticks off their opponent. You could let it go thinking it is nothing and the next thing you know you have a game that is boiling over. I would err on the side of calling it too tightly and stomping on it rather than risk letting it snowball into other stuff. Maybe there are some areas of the country where this is accepted, but not in the suburban leagues that I do. Anyway, it is pretty clearly intentional cheating, so I don't worry much about calling it tightly.
     
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  5. soccerman771

    soccerman771 Member

    Jul 16, 2011
    Dallas, Texas area
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hit the nail on the head here. To the OP - did you ever play?

    Shirt pulling is one of those things that is completely annoying and against the spirit of the game. It was intended to be played with your feet and head and not your hands. Using your hands to play your opponent is not soccer. There's another sport we play in the country where they do that, they should go sign up for that...
     
  6. refontherun

    refontherun Member+

    Jul 14, 2005
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's just like those little niggling shoves in the back in the landing zone on free kicks, when a player is receiving a pass, or when he's trying to chest the ball down. They are hard for us to see and really don't seem to amount to much. They may not cause the player to lose the ball every time, but if you continue to allow it, the game can really heat up just out of frustration.

    Call these things in the first few minutes (unless there is blatant advantage) to see how the players react and to let them know "We are not having that today". If you choose to allow some of it, use your voice (not necessarily "Play On") to let the players know you see what's happening, but have deemed it trifling and/or are allowing the attacker to play through. All it takes is one player to raise an arm/elbow out of frustration and hit a defender in the face. Then you have a real dilemma.
     
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  7. oldreferee

    oldreferee Member

    May 16, 2011
    Tampa
    (Like most, I guess) I have personally been on both ends of this see-saw.

    I still remember perfectly the day (maybe 10 years ago?) I called a foul on blue, and the RED player screamed at me: "Will you just let us play!" :oops:
    More recently was the striker....who unbalanced the defender by tugging his shorts....TWEET...."This is U18, ref!"...."So you know holding is a foul, right?"....and his own coach laughed at him. :D

    How often do you get to work with more seasoned referees? Much of this is YHTBT stuff. In my experience, having someone I can trust and who is also an eye-witness, is critical to improving foul selection.

    Good luck.
     
  8. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    Shirt pulling can quickly escalate so its something you need to be keenly aware of. That being said, it's good that you recognize tolerance for this needs to be adjusted by age/skill level. I would also suggest that you clearly delineate between a tug and a pull.

    At higher ages, the shirt "tug" can often be something players will play through. You'll see a lot of hand to shirt/shorts contact at that age, some of it is innocent "where is my opponent" and other is decidedly less innocent. These little grabs and tugs are sometimes tolerated by the opponent but still need to be watched. Just like it doesn't take a big push to take someone off balance for a shot, a small tug can cost a step or two and result in the need for the call.

    The big pull (especially the one that pulls the shirt way out from the body) is the one that you were thinking about that should be sanctioned by misconduct. I've found that it is very important to jump on that one quickly because the natural reaction from the player is the "get off me" shrug. This can manifest itself in an elbow to the face and... things get fun.

    Bottom line is that shirt tugging -- like many situations involving foul selection -- is a balancing act. You have to figure out what players will play through, the temperature of the match and what the expectation is of the players. Listen to what they say and do (more the player suffering the foul). If they never look back at you when they are getting tugged, but rather are focused on the ball or open space on the field, they probably don't need the call today. Remember you have to call things differently at different times in the match and with different players. Not easy!
     
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  9. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

    Oct 9, 2007
    I agree %100 with Refontherun. Call these 4 things in the first 10 minutes and the players will adapt. As the game goes on, its up to you if you want to loosen. If you let these things go, at U17, U19 or Open, you may end up OK, or you may find yourself stuck on Mr Toad's Wild Ride.
    ______________

    BTW, it was not a Directive that suggested a mandatory YC for this, it is higher than that. It is in the LOTG. (Another one of those things that's in there ....)

    FIFA 2012-2013 LOTG Page 119
    Cautions for unsporting behaviour
    There are different circumstances when a player must be cautioned for unsporting behaviour, e.g. if a player:
    * holds an opponent for the tactical purpose of pulling the opponent away from the ball or preventing the opponent from getting to the ball
    _______________________
    Also in the ATR:

    USSF ATR July, 2010
    Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct
    Part A. Fouls
    12.2 THE DIRECT FREE KICK FOULS
    2. Three actions (holding, spitting, deliberately handling the ball) for which the referee need only decide if the act occurred.
    -------
    12.8 HOLDING
    ...A player who blatantly holds onto or pulls an opponent or an opponent's clothing to play the ball, to gain possession of the ball, or to prevent an opponent from playing the ball should be cautioned and shown the yellow card for unsporting behavior. (See also Advice 12.14.)
    -------
    12.28 CAUTIONABLE OFFENSES
    12.28.1 UNSPORTING BEHAVIOR
    The following specific actions are considered cautionable as unsporting behavior. A player . . .
    • Commits a tactical foul designed to interfere with or impede an opposing team’s attacking play (e.g., pushing an opponent, blatantly holding an opponent or an opponent's uniform, handling the ball deliberately)

    Jayhonk's summary: 12.2.2 says holding is always a foul.
    12.8 says 'blatant holding" "should" be cautioned.
    12.28.1 says "blatant holding" is "cautionable".
    In LOTG, the issue turns on "tactical"; in ATR it turns on "blatant" and "tactical".


    edit: LOL. According to PSSC, the whole issue turns on" tugs" vs "pulls", which I actually agree with. In other words, there are pulls and there are PULLS. My point here was to remind us that this language is in the LOTG and the ATR--not a Directive. How we interpret it is the real crux.
     
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  10. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Well, that is to distinguish from the fouls that are only fouls if careless, reckless, or with excessive force. I don't think you're saying, but I don't want someone walking away thinking, that holding is always a foul that should be called. Saying it is "always" a foul may be misleading -- as with any other foul, holding can be trifiling. (And the higher the level the more holding, in certain circumstances, is accepted by players as trifling. Much that went on, for example, in the Olympics that was trifling would never be considered in a U10 match.)
     
  11. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

    Oct 9, 2007
    Agreed about trifling.
    I just think it is noteworthy that the LOTG says holding is always a foul.
     
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  12. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I don't think it's significant, I think it is a recognition that it is a different type of behavior.

    The C/R/EF fouls are ones that have a different kind of fluidity to them -- tripping, kicking, charging, striking, jumping at, tackling, pushing. Of the other three, deliberate handling needs to be deliberate (duh!), and spitting at has its own requirements built into the "at." Holding is out there a bit on its own, not because it is seen as worse, but because it is different in how it happens. You can carelessly trip someone, but what does it mean to "carelessly" or "recklessly" hold someone? Yes we might concoct things, but that's not how it actually happens -- holding happens when someone grabs a shirt or an arm. It's not careless or reckless, it's a volitional act that doesn't make sense to describe that way. I don't think anything in that description is intenced to make it "always" anything.

    (As an even further aside, keep in mind that until the great rewrite, Law XII said that all fouls had to be intentional -- which got to some interesting warping of language between what was written on the page and what was called (and expected to be called). The shift of 6 fouls [which later became 7] to C/R/EF in Law 12 was, I think, more a recognition of the reality and nature of the fouls than any judgment amongst them.)
     
  13. dadman

    dadman Yo soy un papa

    DC United
    United States
    Apr 13, 2001
    Frederick, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just wanted to thank the OP for sparking a great little thread. :thumbsup:
     
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  14. Quakes for life

    May 18, 2010
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Lots of good advice and ideas to consider from everyone, especially to monitor the players being fouled more closely for body language and reaction. However, I don't want to pay too much heed to that and give the appearance that I am calling the foul in response to complaining - I fear that is the quickest way to lose the respect of the players.

    To answer your questions, they were trying to play through the shirt tugs, but were unsucessful and losing possession. The team wasn't very vocal, so not much complaining. Their coach didn't say a word the whole match. The spectators were not complaining at all about the calls or non-calls - at least not loud enough so that I could hear. Frustration levels were rising only for the few players that got called for the fouls. The team getting the benefit of the fouls was happy to get the free kicks - no complaints from them to "let us play".

    I ended up calling the shirt tugs three times after loss of possession and after the third time told everyone that they must not be paying close attention to my calls because they keep doing the same thing and getting the same result. So they should try changing tactics. There was one more shirt tug in the first half that I also called (all four infractions from the same team). In the second half the game was much cleaner and I didn't need to blow the whistle for that specific foul. By the way, in the second half, the team that stopped with the shirt tugging actually played better possession soccer. This was after they were playing down a man due to a clear DOGSO foul outside the penalty - no complaints from anyone about that call.
     
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  15. Quakes for life

    May 18, 2010
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    This was my thinking as well, as in my younger days used to be a fast winger and was not happy when the defense used those tactics to stop me from flying past them for a 1 on 1 with their keeper. But I wanted to gain perspective to make sure my bias was not unfounded.
     
  16. Quakes for life

    May 18, 2010
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Funny! I'll look forward to getting more games at this level so that I can share stories of my own.

    Not much opportunity working with seasoned referees except for the 6 matches in that tournament. One of my ARs on that match, a seasoned referee, was the center on the previous match and he was much looser than I was - from my perspective I thought he missed quite a few fouls or else saw them and let too many of them go. This is why I thought I would open it up to the forum to get perspective. However, the next day I also AR'ed for a state emeritus center and he called it as tightly as I would have, but this was a U16, not U18 match. I love ARing with seasoned referees, especially to see player and game management techniques.
     
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  17. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    Sounds like you made the adjustments to your game and the players responded nicely. That means you did it right! Next time, it could be different so be prepared to adjust again.

    This caught my attention for several reasons. Trust me, the advise here isn't "respond to the player's complaining" in a manner that causes you to lose control. Instead, its having your finger on the pulse of the game. As a referee you want to hear and notice everything you can from the players. Sometimes, it's just rubbish complaining and gamesmanship. Other times they are giving you information that will allow you to change how you are calling the game for the better of everyone.

    The higher level game requires more of this ability. Listen, act when you need to.
     
  18. ref2coach

    ref2coach Member

    May 27, 2004
    TN, USA
    I'll add one other thing from another sport I referee. The acronym R.S.B.Q. Rhythm, Speed, Balance, Quickness. If the hold/pull negatively affect any of the RSBQ then it is not trifling, call it.
     
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  19. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Haven't heard that one before -- what sport does it come from?
     
  20. ref2coach

    ref2coach Member

    May 27, 2004
    TN, USA
    Basketball
     

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