Tokyo Olympics: USWNT vs New Zealand, July 24, pre/pbp/post

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by lil_one, Jul 17, 2021.

  1. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I decided to go ahead and start game-day threads for each of the group stage games.

    The second group stage game against New Zealand will be at 7:30 am ET on July 24 (8:30 pm local) at Saitama Stadium. The game will be broadcast in the States on NBCSN. (For more on how to follow along and watch with the full USWNT schedule, see the Athletic's article on it.)

    The teams will choose an 18-player game day roster from their 22-player rosters.

    The USWNT is 15-1-1 all-time against New Zealand (the only loss comes from their first meeting in 1987), and the last time they played in May 2019, the US won 5-0. The two teams also faced each other in the group stage of the 2016 Olympics, and the US won 2-0.
     
    kennytt, edcrocker, JanBalk and 3 others repped this.
  2. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The referees for Matchday 2 have been announced and posted by @Lechus7 in the Olympics 2020 Forum

    US and New Zealand get Stephanie Frappart (France), that's a big name from the referee pool. She was the center referee in the Championship Match of the 2019 World Cup.

    Sweden and Australia get Edina Alves Batista (Brazil), who was the referee for the US semifinal match against England at the World Cup.

     
    jackdoggy and West Ender repped this.
  3. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm ready to move on to this game. Anyone else?

    Changes I want to see:
    -Ertz to start, if she can; if not, I guess we'll keep Horan there but I think it's unfortunate that we never experimented with Sam Mewis in the role instead
    -And this is just a dream, not reality: Davidson to start and move Dunn up...I know, I know, but hear me out! Davidson was a spark when she came in, and she's sound defensively. She may have a giveaway or two like Dunn did but it's less of a worry against New Zealand. Additionally, I think Dunn might bring more energy further up. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll experiment with this in the tournament, and I'm just spitballing here. The question also is who sits in the offense if you move Dunn up.

    Changes that we have to see:
    -More energy and fight...it's do-or-die from here on out. I would love to not see the dazed-and-confused look on USWNT players' faces again.
    -More support on defense and offense across the field: press together, attack in waves and not leave players stranded, etc.

    Hopefully, we actually learned something from the Sweden game; looking back, I don't think we learned what we needed to from the April Sweden friendly.
     
  4. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Of course, New Zealand can't really compete with USWNT, but am I the only one to think that Tom Sermanni could hold some kind of a chip on his shoulder that could give him and the team some extra-motivation to do well against the USA? Also Sermanni knows quite well US soccer, for having coached NT (although quite some years ago) and for having coached in NWSL.

    In other words: considering USWNT have to win this game at all costs, is it so sure that it will be "an easy game"?

    Of course, New Zealand are just #22 in the world (and their rankings don't even mean much, since they didn't play actual matches since ages), but do I remember well that recently USWNT had a hard-time at breaking a well-organized #30 ranked Portugal and only scored quite late in the game? Can Sermanni manage to mount a similar kind of defense for his team? Of course a tie would be enough to crush US hopes to advance (a resounding win vs Australia would then be needed).
     
    kennytt, jnielsen and kolabear repped this.
  5. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't say it'll be an easy game; I was just saying a giveaway or two (of which the US had a plethora in the last game) would not be the same as when playing Sweden. Sweden has the talent to make the US to pay for mistakes; not every team does.

    Sermanni's inside knowledge didn't seem to help in 2019 when the US won 5-0. I I don't think that'll be the scoreline in this game, but New Zealand also didn't have the benefit of playing at all during the pandemic, besides the friendly on July 14.

    New Zealand can definitely bunker or come up with a good tactical plan to hold the scoreline down. But, typically the USWNT comes out with a chip on its shoulder and a ferociousness after just losing or drawing in a game (the 2014 Algarve Cup when Sermanni coached was a notable exception to that). In any case, the US should definitely win. It will be a colossal failure if they don't, and that's not overstating it: the current win-loss record against New Zealand is 15-1-1, and the US have never had to back-to-back losses or a loss followed by a draw in a major tournament. (We have had a draw followed by a loss...in 2016. Do people remember that we drew the last group-stage game before losing to Sweden?)
     
    kolabear and blissett repped this.
  6. JanBalk

    JanBalk Member+

    Jun 9, 2004
    Actually 4 points are almost guaranteed to get you through as one of the best 3rd placed teams, so just beating Australia should be ebough for that. And most likely beating Australia after a tie to New Zeeland should be enough for a 2nd place, unless Australia does a lot better against Sweden than US did.
     
    lil_one and blissett repped this.
  7. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    #7 blissett, Jul 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
    You're right: I can't really see Zambia/China make more than 3 points at max in their group, since Brazil and Netherlands should crush them as they did in the first match-day. So, no matter what happens in the remaining group, there should be at least one group having the 3rd-placed team at just 3 points.

    Of course, assuming Australia lose to Sweden and considering they only won by 2-1 vs New Zealand, they would fight tooth and nail vs USA, to avoid remaining at just 3 points and maybe being beaten, let's say, by a China exploiting Zambia's defensive weaknesses and shoring up their goal difference to the point of cutting out any other team at 3 points (despite having lost by 5-0 to Brazil already).
     
    kolabear and JanBalk repped this.
  8. jackdoggy

    jackdoggy Member+

    May 16, 2014
    Big D
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh! Oh! me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.

    After consulting with various therapists and medical scientists, you can NOT have 2 hours permanently removed from your memory…….so save yourself a few bucks and don’t even ask.

    Keep your chins up and consider hydrating more for the Match on Saturday........early morning options - - - Bloody Mary’s, Screwdrivers, Watermelon Martini's, Red Eye's, Mimosa’s, Irish Crème and Coffee………….
     
    Semblance17, McSkillz and kolabear repped this.
  9. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    It's virtually impossible for the U.S. to not make the knockout stage--not even worth discussing. Zambia and Chile are not going to win a game, and China already has a goal deficit of 5 to make up. New Zealand probably won't win a game, either. The Kiwis are capable of playing a strong defensive match--but they struggle mightily to score goals and the Sweden debacle would pale before the ignominy of not getting a win against New Zealand.
     
  10. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well,, the most important thing determining the lineup is what the physios and conditioning people have to say, isn't it? It's all a matter of sticking to the plan, Comrade! How do we best build up the minutes of Heath and Ertz for the later stages of the tournament?!

    Is the plan to have them build up more minutes in this match? Or is it to give them the game off? Only the Physios — and Vlatko — knows.

    Horan should be fine as the #6 against New Zealand. New Zealand is not all that much stronger or dangerous than Mexico now. They've been drifting down from a rating in the low 1800s to a rating now of 1757. Hardly having played the last 2 years it's hard to see how they could've improved.

    Since New Zealand will likely play in a shell much of the time, it should be a game suited for Tobin Heath, but again it's all a matter of consulting the Physios.

    By the same token, it may also suit Carli Lloyd more than Morgan so if we wanted the option of having Lynn Williams take up some minutes (but who wants that?!), then it could make sense to leave Morgan off the gameday roster.

    I'm one of the early advocates of the FREE CRYSTAL DUNN MOVEMENT so I like your suggestion. I just don't see it now and this is a good game to rest Dunn; and having Davidson at LB would be excellent unless Davidson is going to be used in a CB role against NZ
     
    jnielsen repped this.
  11. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    #11 Number007, Jul 23, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
    https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-...ey-horan-mentality-wasnt-there-to-beat-sweden

    when you take an experienced,older team, mentality is not something you expect to use as an excuse. On Dunn. I dont get the whole free her movement. She is in the team to be an attacking option from the flanks. If the opponent is good enough to make her more defender than attacker, then hats off to them. Moving her up the field vs "weaker" teams serves little purpose for me. She is not a great passer, so are you suggesting they play her as a winger or in behind a striker ? I don't see that improves the team much. If the plan is to have Davidson play as a more conservative OB, then fine, but that really impacts the job of the wingers to really track back to fill that wide area. The only player i trust to do that other than perhaps Dunn would be LW. Dunn just needs to be better in her decision making in possession and she will be fine at OB vs anyone.
     
    MRAD12 and taosjohn repped this.
  12. Disapproving Hippo

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jan 17, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Vlatko said there will be a change but minimal (I assume tactics/formation wise) coming into this game. Is he suggesting what happened against Sweden was because of a minor issue hence only a minor change is needed? I'm starting to panic for this team as well as my bracket.
     
  13. JanBalk

    JanBalk Member+

    Jun 9, 2004
    That the tactics/formation didn't work against a top team while it went on the offense shouldn't be a problem against New Zealand.
    They do not have the capacity to press US that way, only way US is not winning if NZ do a successful bunker.

    Against Australia it may be a problem, probably not but it could be. But against New Zeeland it shouldn't be.
     
    West Ender repped this.
  14. NCChiFan

    NCChiFan Member

    NC Courage
    United States
    Feb 19, 2021
    So, Heath out, Rapinoe in along with Morgan and Press across the front line. Midfield the same except Ertz to start instead of Horan. D and Goalie no change.
     
  15. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You don't get the FREE CRYSTAL DUNN MOVEMENT because you don't seem to realize what position she stars in for her club teams.
    Would you ever consider asking Paul Riley and Mark Parsons whether they think she is a great passer or not?
    The US has had the incredible luxury of having a player with world-class midfield skills be able to play left back for them. But, a) she doesn't play LB for her clubs, b) she doesn't especially like playing LB, c) some of us suspect she's getting tired of playing LB for the US, d) maybe it's getting to be a grind having to switch back and forth between the two roles

    And if there are people who think,instead of what a sacrifice she's been willing to make for the US, that she should be grateful to be "given" LB on the team because she's not good enough to be a regular midfielder for the US, I don't blame her for being sick of playing LB. I'd be sick of it, too, and sick of the people ignorant and ungrateful enough to think that.

    Maybe I better stop here. (grrrrrr!)
     
  16. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    I get it perfectly well. To free her, you need to change the team. Im just saying that the Olympics is not the time for that to be done. If you want Dunn in a more advanced role, cool, but the team needs to be built for that. I happen to think that OB is her best position, but thats me. We can agree to disagree. I like Dunn, but i dont see her as a world class midfielder. She is a very good transition player in a league where that is a premium.

    I cant speak for her, and wont try to. If she does not want to play LB, she could ask to only be considered at other positions.n
     
  17. edcrocker

    edcrocker Member+

    May 11, 1999
    I’ll put up the line-up I think Vlatko Andonovski should start against New Zealand tomorrow and argue for some of the players that he should start. I’ll also discuss whether Andonovski should have Lynn Williams on the US’s 18-player roster for the New Zealand match.

    Here is the line-up I think Andonovski should start tomorrow:


    ----------------------------------------Naeher------------------------------------


    O’Hara--------------Dahlkemper----------Sauerbrunn ----------Davidson


    ------------------------------------------Ertz-------------------------------------


    -----------------------Lavelle--------------------------Horan-----------------


    Press---------------------------------Lloyd---------------------------Rapinoe


    1. Tierna Davidson

    Against New Zealand, I think Tierna Davidson should either start at left back or center-back next to Becky Sauerbrunn. When Davidson came into the match against Sweden, she did well. Her positioning and passing were good, and she played good defense. She also is tall (5’ 10”) and fairly strong. She weighs 143 pounds. Moreover, the US struggled with Sweden’s physicality. From what I’ve seen, refs are calling the women’s game less tightly than they did in the 2015 Women’s World Cup. In addition, Davidson is poised and seems to have the disposition to handle the pressure well. Finally, she will be fresh for New Zealand, as she played only 10 minutes against Sweden. Her freshness is important, as there are only three days between the US’s match with Sweden and their match with New Zealand tomorrow. And then the US play Australia on Tuesday, only three days after their match with New Zealand.

    The question I have is whether Davidson should start at center-back in place of Abby Dahlkemper or at left back in place of Crystal Dunn. I’m really torn. On the one hand, although I would like to analyze closely each of Sweden’s goals against the US, my impression is that Dahlkemper was partly responsible for each goal. Moreover, Davidson has plenty of experience playing center-back for the US and has generally played center-back at the club level. Davidson also is taller, may be better in the air and may be faster than Dahlkemper

    In addition, from what I saw, Crystal Dunn was partly responsible for only one of Sweden’s goals, namely the third one. She was beaten down the US’s left flank. Also, Dunn has played so well for the US before at left back, including in the US’s crucial match against France in the quarterfinals of 2019 World Cup, a match in which Dunn neutralized the dangerous Kadidiatou Diani.

    However, when Davidson entered the match against Sweden on Wednesday, she came in at left back. And she played well at that position. And she’s much taller and is stronger than Dunn, who is only 5’ 1”, 110 pounds. My feeling is that Davidson should replace Dunn. Perhaps it’s because Davidson came into the match against Sweden and solidified the US’s left side. However, someone I know well whose judgment on soccer I respect considerably believes that Davidson should replace Dahlkemper. He thought Dunn was reasonably good against Sweden and that Dahlkemper was a liability.


    2. The Central Midfielders

    Julie Ertz played well against Sweden. Her passing and positioning were good. She also seems to give the players around her confidence. So, if she is healthy enough to start against New Zealand, I’d start her at defensive-midfield.

    I think both Lindsey Horan and Rose Lavelle were better against Sweden than Sam Mewis was. Their passing was more accurate. And Lavelle’s dribbling ability and pace make her an important player for the US to have on the field. So, I’d start Horan and Lavelle as the attacking center-mids.


    3. Wingers

    Against Sweden, the US’s wingers almost played like traditional wingers in a 4-3-3 from the 1970s. When the ball was in the US’s own third of the field or in the middle third, the US wingers stayed close to the half line. This made it hard for the US to have passing options to play out of pressure. The wingers sometimes were not close enough to the play to be passing options. If the ball is in the US’s third or the middle third, it’s important for the US wingers to come back into midfield to play defense and to provide the US players with more passing options.

    Moreover, I think it’s important for Meagan Rapinoe to start against New Zealand. She’s a team leader. And she is still an outstanding player. In 2021, she is the US’s leading goal-scorer with 7 goals. Here is a link to the team stats from 2021:

    https://www.ussoccer.com/uswnt-stats

    In addition, against Sweden, Rapinoe's ball control and passing were good. She also was good at drawing fouls. In addition, she gives the players around her support and confidence. Finally, she played only 26 minutes against Sweden, so she should be fresh tomorrow.


    4. Carli Lloyd

    Carli Lloyd was better against Sweden than Alex Morgan was. Lloyd was more dangerous, more active and better at pressing. So, I would start Lloyd against New Zealand.


    5. Lynn Williams

    Against Sweden, the US struggled with Sweden’s physicality, athleticism and vigor. Lynn Williams—who is 28, fast, athletic and strong—could give the US an important physical dimension. She also has 11 goals in 37 appearances for the US national team (one goal every three games), is currently tied for first in scoring in the NWSL (here), and is the second all-time leading scorer in NWSL history, behind only Sam Kerr and ahead of Christine Sinclair. Here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NWSL_records_and_statistics

    The relevant chart is about halfway down the page.

    Finally, in the last match before Andonovski selected the 18 players for the US’s Olympic roster, Williams scored a very nice goal against Nigeria—a very athletic team—just after her having been introduced into the match. Here is a video of that goal:



    The sequence starts at minute 3:08.

    A question: Should Andonovski have Williams on the 18-player roster for tomorrow’s match? He definitely should seriously consider it. I probably would have her on the 18-player roster. In addition, Andonovski should consider having Williams available to come into the match against New Zealand at right wing, where she generally has played for the US, and perhaps center forward.

    However, in order to have Williams on the 18-player gameday roster for tomorrow's match, Andonovski would have to replace one of the players who were on the gameday roster for the Sweden match with Williams. The four reasonable candidates to be replaced are Tobin Heath, Alex Morgan, Emily Sonnett and Kristi Mewis. I might lean toward Heath. She didn’t do much against Sweden and struggled with their physicality. And she plays the same position as Williams, namely right wing.

    Morgan’s another option. She was ineffective against Sweden, and Williams can play right wing or center forward. In addition, with both Christen Press and Carli Lloyd on the 18-player roster, Andonovksi probably would have adequate cover at center-forward if Morgan were not on the roster.

    Finally, in addition to right wing, Williams can also play center forward. For the North Carolina Courage, Williams generally has started as a forward in a 4-4-2. So, if something were to happen to both Lloyd and Press, Andonovksi could play Williams at center forward, Rapinoe at left wing and Lavelle at right wing.

    However, how would not dressing Morgan affect Morgan and the team’s chemistry? Morgan has been one of the US’s leading players for the last ten years or so and is the fifth all-time leading scorer in US women’s soccer history.

    Moreover, could Andonovski get away with not dressing Sonnett? If something were to happen to Kelley O’Hara, Andonovksi could play Dunn or Davidson at right back and the other one at left back. But it’s a bit of a risk. For instance, what if Davidson is needed at center-back?

    Finally, what about Kristi Mewis? Without Kristi, the US still would have three obvious players on the gameday roster to play the two attacking center-mid spots, namely Horan, Lavelle and Sam Mewis. But is that enough?
     
  18. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dunn can play the roles that Mewis and Lavelle play and play them just as well, doing some things better than them, doing some things not as well as them. Just as we'd say if we compared Mewis, Lavelle, and Horan..This isn't hard except some people for some reason don't want to give Dunn credit for being equally good a midfielder. Again, what do you think Mark Parsons and Paul Riley would say?

    You're mistaking the marginal value Dunn adds playing LB to whether she is absolutely better a LB than a midfielder. In other words, how much better is Dunn over her replacements at LB vs her replacements in the midfield? She's been miles better at LB than anyone else in the US pool. At midfield, we have strong replacements in... guess who... Sam Mewis, Lavelle, Horan. But it doesn't mean she's a better LB than a midfielder. And it doesn't mean she won't get sick of playing LB quicker than she will playing midfield.

    It's a relatively important point to disagree on and leads to not showing Dunn enough respect.
     
  19. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    Im not mistaking anything. I just have a different opinion. Its all good.
     
    kolabear repped this.
  20. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I do not think there is any remotely reasonable lineup that could be chosen that would not beat New Zealand and the New Zealand result, unless the really unthinkable happens, should not be considered as a recovery.

    New Zealand is quite bad and does not have enough good players to even trouble the worst we could field from the pool we brought to Japan. I really believe that New Zealand is playing at about the level of Mexico or other poor CONCACAF teams.

    I also wish to point out that even 3 points, if we run a score to cover the goals we allowed vs Sweden, has a better than even chance of putting us through. Remember only one third place team does not go through.

    My concern is that we will win and think we have righted the ship and then run into a buzz-saw in Australia. Australia does have more than enough good players to cause us problems, a lot of problems, if we play like we did against Sweden.

    As bad as I think Andonovski is as a coach at this level I do not think he is trying to screw up the USWNT and I believe he really wants to have the team win. Because of that I expect that he will play this match so as to be absolutely sure of a decisive victory.

    That may be a reason to start Williams and let her run at the NZ defense for a half and really tire them out. Goals might com from that directly but it does not matter as we will get goals from elsewhere. Once Williams has produced tired legs Press can come in fresh and destroy any confidence NZ's left side has remaining.

    Any center forward we have will pick NZ's defense to pieces and any of our players in midfield or defense will be fine.

    The main goal of this game should be to win and win solidly and by as big a margin as possible.

    If there does prove to be a real weakness in NZ's defensive setup or play we should attack it without mercy and force them to change.
     
    JanBalk repped this.
  21. zdravstvuyte

    zdravstvuyte Member

    Aston Villa
    United States
    Jul 26, 2018
    Back on tour !!!
    I’m watching the replay at 17:30EDT / 14:30 PDT on USA network. See ya’ll after that.
     
    jnielsen repped this.
  22. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    jackdoggy repped this.
  23. nick p

    nick p Member+

    Jul 11, 2009
    Baltimore Maryland
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honestly we could probably roll out any lineup against NZ and still win since they have had basically zero practice or competition for almost 2 years
     
  24. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  25. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also note who is on the bench: Campbell, Macario, and Krueger. If we get a medal, everyone will get one, assuming Williams will make a game-day roster...possibly the next one.
     
    jnielsen and blissett repped this.

Share This Page