Tokyo 2020 Olympic Referees & Discussion [R]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Apr 22, 2021.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We usually don't have a separate forum or individual threads for the Olympics, so this can be a catch-all. The names came out 48 hours ago and actually surprised no one posted, since there is solid PRO representation.

    Referees only are below (along with PRO specific stuff). Consistent with where FIFA has gone on a gender-neutral list, only one announcement was made for these two tournaments. I very much suspect that means Frappart will get a men's match in Japan.

    AFC
    BEATH (AUS)
    JACEWICZ (AUS)
    MAKHADMEH (JOR)
    YAMASHITA (JPN)

    CAF
    GOMES (RSA)
    MUKANSANGA (RWA)
    TESSEMA (ETH)

    CONCACAF
    BARTON (SLV)
    BORJAS (HON)
    ELFATH (USA) [PARKER/ATKINS]
    VENEGAS (MEX)

    VARS: JURISEVIC (USA), C. PENSO (USA)

    CONMEBOL
    ALVES (BRA)
    FORTUNATO (ARG)
    GONZALEZ (URU)
    ORTEGA (PER)
    VALENZUELA (VEN)

    OFC
    CONGER (NZL)

    UEFA
    DIAS (POR)
    FRAPPART (FRA)
    GRINFELD (ISR)
    JOVANOVIC (SRB)
    KABAKOV (BUL)
    MONZUL (UKR)
    PUSTOVOITOVA (RUS)
    STAUBLI (SUI)

    As always, a very busy summer for a few UEFA officials (including ARs) who are attending both EURO and Olympics. Grinfeld, in particular, is noteworthy because he is an on-field referee at both tournaments. I also would note there appear to be only 11 female referees, unless I'm miscounting. If Frappart or others work men's game, that might require some male referees working women's matches because 12 is usually the number FIFA picks for the Olympics.
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just dawned on me that CONCACAF Gold Cup is during the same time. So...

    No Barton or Elfath (and his trio) at Gold Cup.

    Also no Penso or Jurisevic as VARs.

    Given the fact Gold Cup is going to have VAR, losing one of the trios most experienced in it and two of your best VARs... well, that's not a good start!

    The elimination of Barton also makes Escobar an odds-on favorite for the Gold Cup Final, if he wasn't already.

    I really can't wait to see who is VAR on the Final if it ends up being USA v Mexico.
     
    fairplayforlife and Dayton Ref repped this.
  3. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unless I'm reading this incorrectly, it would appear that for the second straight Olympics, there are no women referees from the United States.
     
    msilverstein47 repped this.
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Correct. Chantal Boudreau, who was just hired by PRO, is there as a Canadian AR representative. But she appears to be in Borjas' trio.
     
  5. ref29

    ref29 Member

    Nov 8, 2010
    Since FIFA and UEFA appointed female match officials for the Olympics and Euro, Concacaf will select Nesbitt for Gold Cup, so they also have female representation.
     
    kolabear repped this.
  6. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    When was the last time a male referee works an international women's match? Can't recall any instance of this in recent years.
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m not sure I buy that as the sole justification. There will probably be two US crews, right? You take Elfath’s trio out of the equation. You put Marrufo and his crew (presuming no professional conflicts) in. Is Nesbitt in the top 5 or 6 American ARs on merit? It would appear so. And if she is, she’s earned the call. The PR benefits are there, but in such a case they would appear the primary motivator like they are with Frappart going to EURO.
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1996 Olympics?

    At least at the tournament level, I believe that’s the last time the referee roster for a women’s tournament wasn’t all-female. I’m sure international matches have had men in charge since (as qualifiers have grown) and maybe there’s been a replacement here or there. But I think 1996 is the cutoff for purposeful gender-based appointments.

    And to be clear, I think this might have to happen. I don’t think it’s a good idea. Switching from the men’s to women’s professional game (and Vice versa) is hard, as those in the US who have done WUSA, WPS and NWSL while also climbing the men’s professional ladder can attest. I cannot fathom being an Elite male referee who hasn’t done a women’s match in years (or ever) suddenly having to whistle an Olympic match. I see it as a recipe for disaster. So hopefully FIFA can get by with 11 officials.
     
    balu repped this.
  9. ref29

    ref29 Member

    Nov 8, 2010
    I have absolutely no doubt that Nesbitt would deserve a Gold Cup appointment. My comment was in response to why there are no US refs at the Olympics. I am sure that Nesbitt is part of a trio pre-selected for WWC23, so she could have went to Olympics, but instead was retained by Concacaf for the Gold Cup.
     
  10. ref29

    ref29 Member

    Nov 8, 2010
    Who was the male referee that did a women's match at the 1996 Olympics?

    I am not aware of any male referee being appointed to an international official women's game in the last 20+ years. If anyone has such info, please share.
     
  11. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A bunch. The group stage matches were split male/female. Archundia did a group stage match. Maybe even Collina.

    Knockout stages were female only.
     
  12. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Collina, Garcia-Aranda, Archundia, and El-Ghandour all did women's matches there.
     
  13. ref29

    ref29 Member

    Nov 8, 2010
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tournament, unlikely. But I imagine you’d find a few WCQs for the 1999 and maybe 2003 cycles. Could take a lot of digging and I’m not certain, but the likelihood the turnover was instantaneous worldwide is low because there just weren’t that many FIFA women referees then. Of course, there weren’t that many qualifiers either. But I suspect the growth of qualifiers outpaced the growth of the referees in some regions initially.
     
  15. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

    May 24, 2012
    Drew Fischer.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe. How good is his Spanish?

    It makes sense but I wonder if officiating in MLS hurts—no idea how that would be handled. And while English is the working language, almost any crew on that match would be using Spanish primarily. So unless he’s fluent, that could actually be a problem.

    But you are right. He’s the natural answer.
     
  17. ref29

    ref29 Member

    Nov 8, 2010
    Do you expect Escobar to get a second Gold Cup final in a row? I know it happened in the past, but I am hoping that Concacaf will not consider only Escobar and Barton for all their finals.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do. I hope I’m wrong. Maybe the hot Costa Rican hand would be seen as viable if Escobar slips.

    Of course, US-Mexico is not guarantee anyway.
     
  19. ref29

    ref29 Member

    Nov 8, 2010
    Calderon or Martinez would be neutral and should be given a chance.
     
  20. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Casually stolen from Wikipedia

    Men's Tournament

    [​IMG]

    Women's Tournament

    [​IMG]

    VARs for Both Tournaments

    [​IMG]
     
  21. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wednesday, July 21

    Women's Group E

    Great Britain v Chile
    R: Salima Mukansanga (RWA)
    VAR: Abdulla Al Marri (QAT)

    Japan v Canada
    R: Edina Alves (BRA)
    VAR: Wanger Reway (POR)

    Women's Group F
    China v Brazil
    R: Kateryna Monzul (UKR)
    VAR: Guillermo Cuadra (ESP)

    Zambia v Netherlands
    R: Laura Fortunato (ARG)
    VAR: Mauro Vigliano

    Women's Group G
    Sweden v United States
    R: Yoshimi Yamashita (JPN)
    VAR: Pawel Raczkowski (POL)

    Australia v New Zealand
    R: Lucila Venegas (MEX)
    VAR: Andres Cunha (URU)
     
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  22. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thursday, July 22

    Men's Group A
    Japan v South Africa
    R: Jesus Valenzuela (VEN)
    VAR: Mauro Vigliano (ARG) [Jurisevic AVAR]

    Mexico v France
    R: Christopher Beath (AUS)
    VAR: Fu Ming (CHN)

    Men's Group B
    New Zealand v South Korea
    R: Victor Gomes (RSA)
    VAR: Benoit Millot (FRA)

    Honduras v Romania
    R: Leodan Gonzalez (URU) [Elfath 4th]
    VAR: Andres Cunha (URU)

    Men's Group C
    Egypt v Spain
    R: Adham Makhadmeh (JOR)
    VAR: Abdulla Al Marri (QAT)

    Argentina v Australia
    R: Srdjan Javanovic (SRB)
    VAR: Tiago Martins (POR)

    Men's Group D
    Ivory Coast v Saudi Arabia
    R: Matt Conger (NZL)
    VAR: Pawel Raczkowski (POL)
    [Very minor note - Israeli AVAR]

    Brazil v Germany
    R: Ivan Barton (SLV)
    VAR: Marco Guida (ITA)
     
  23. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    Good use of VAR on the penalty kick for Japan against Canada. Injury on the play to the GK at the 47th minute. Long stoppage to deal with the injury, and Alves wisely used the delay to deal with the VAR situation and get that side of things resolved.
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a pleasant surprise. Though, if confederational neutrality is going to be maintained, I guess options were limited.

    Two other notes. First, Grinfeeld is FO on the Saudi Arabia match, too; the assignment has to be deliberate. Secondly, the below document indicates that, despite the lengths FIFA has gone to in order to say the lists are gender neutral and the selections for this tournament were gender neutral, it appears there will be a strict separation of the genders for the referees and ARs:

    https://olympics.com/tokyo-2020/oly...L_C35B_FBL-------------------------------.pdf

    So, unless there's a change mid-stream, no Frappart on men's matches and no men on women's matches.
     
  25. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a big assignment for Barton. I'm really interested to see what he can do with the shackles of CONCACAF removed.

    Watching Said Martinez in the Mexico-ES match gives me some hope that we may have a decent number of officials besides Escobar who have a chance of handling a US-Mexico match well. If we could get Martinez, Barton, and one more, that would make me feel a lot better knowing that at least one US-Mexico match would have a good official on it (assuming Escobar gets one of the US-Mexico Ocho matches).
     

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