Today's (12/29) Sensible Insight designed to stick in the craw of...

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Karl K, Dec 29, 2005.

  1. Karl K

    Karl K Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    Suburban Chicago
    Yes, ladies and gentlemen of BigSoccers P&CA forum, the first in a continuous (though not necessarily daily) series of quotes and comments from various luminaries and intellects, designed to delight, or infuriate...depending, of course, on your political and cultural persuasion.

    Today's installement is from Robert Kaplan, author of Imperial Grunts...

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1400061326/qid=1135808069/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-3464528-2601439?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

    The book is about our elite military units. Kaplan, also a correspondent for the Atlantic Monthly, was on Hugh Hewitt's radio show.

    From the transcipt.

    http://radioblogger.com/#001258

     
  2. btousley

    btousley New Member

    Jul 12, 1999
    having just finished Christmas reading (that is right - Christmas - not holiday reading) on Fallujah in 2004 - one of Bing West's (No True Glory) comment from Marines and Army troops in Fallujah was the lack of willingness of reporters from the MSM to come out to Fallujah (Al Anbar) and see what the battle was really like - and instead chose to stay in Baghdad and quote from Al Jazeera .....

    the book is fully of juicy tidbits that ought to drive those that describe our troops as blood thirsty savages nuts. Incendiary warheads into insurgent lairs and filling homes with fuel and torching them off. Because it saved Marine lives.

    we have some great great troops. Gen X ought to be very very proud.
     
  3. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    So you only read on Christmas then and stop lest the New Year catch you peeking at a printed word?
     
  4. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    I do not [regret that we've gone into Iraq]. I've been going back to Iraq since 1984. The only way I can describe Saddam's regime is think of Eastern Europe before Stalin died in 1953. It was like the worst, darkest regimes in Eastern Europe in the late 1940's.

    And to carry the analogy out further, I sure am happy that by 1952 we were courageous enough under President Eisenhower to invade Eastern Europe and install democracy everywhere. I'll never forget Ike's stirring speech on the deck of that carrier.

    And when that lefty moonbat Adlai Stephenson had the gaul to question him on the commitment and numbers of our coalition partners in Operation Poland Freedom by ticking off the names of a few smaller coalition partners, I'll never forget that classic line by Ike, "you forgot Iraq."

    Yes, thank God we didn't stick by that ridiculous policy of containment. That would have never worked.
     
  5. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What is wrong with a person who starts a thread designed to stick in someone's craw? If that's the intent of the thread, what is there to discuss? Craw removal techniques?
     
  6. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not even sure where to find my craw.
     
  7. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Women don't have craws, only men.
     
  8. Dammit!

    Dammit! Member

    Apr 14, 2004
    Mickey Mouse Land
    Please educate me as to the "craw" that I have.



    PS> Good piece. I'm glad to read stuff like this; it makes me proud of these kids in the forces. Who is this guy?
     
  9. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Whew, that's a relief.
     
  10. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    So obviously the whole Talking Point that we undermine our soldiers' morale by questioning the war is out the window. According to Karl K, not a single soldier in Iraq has a morale problem.
     
  11. Sine Pari

    Sine Pari Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    NUNYA, BIZ

    I've got one

    My iPod died

    This war has now become unjust ! I can't listen to my tunes when I want to !
     
  12. Footer Phooter

    Jul 23, 2000
    Falls Church, VA

    Like Karl said, he's a correspondent for Atlantic Monthly. I'm not sure what else he does, but he consistently writes very, very good pieces for that magazine, usually from unstable or third world countries.
     
  13. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    You know, that may have been true thirty or forty years ago. But the reality today is there was an explosion of democracies in the 90's, and you cannot have an age of democratization without an age of military professionalization. If we don't professionalize these militaries, they won't stay democratic for long.

    So, since many on here credit Bush with the Ukraine and Lebannon and Egypt and Saudi Arabia, I guess we have to credit whoever the president was in the 90's for the "explosion of democracies." :D

    Seriously, the point of this part of the interview was that we are going into places like Georgia with a very small military presence and training their military so that they can support a fledgling democracy. This, in contrast to our past policies which would instead prop up a dictator who was friendly towards us.

    I agree wholeheartedly with this policy, and said so before Iraq. I used this very idea as a reason NOT to invade Iraq. The ground swell of democracy should be in place, and the people of the subject country should step up and demand their rights to self determination before we step in with any kind of physical presence.

    None of that existed in Iraq. Instead, Bush embarked on a great experiment to create democracy where none of the elements existed. An interesting idea for a term paper, but pretty difficult to put into effect.
     
  14. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    I've heard that re-enlistment rates for troops that have served in Iraq are much higher than for the rest of the military. Is that true? If so (or not) why is that?
     
  15. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    Free iPods.
     
  16. Sine Pari

    Sine Pari Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    NUNYA, BIZ

    I believe that's true

    I would guess it's from wanting to see a job completed. I will say and I am sure I will be flamed, but I think military folks have a higher sense of honor and committement than those folks in the civilllian world. I straddle both as a reservist and I will say I do see some truth to it.
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd read that the re-enlistment rate for regular soldiers (as opposed to Guard and Reserve units) improved, but that was after the military started offering these astronomical re-signing bonuses.
     
  18. Sine Pari

    Sine Pari Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    NUNYA, BIZ

    So it's just money that motivates me ?

    Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit I had no idea
     
  19. Attacking Minded

    Attacking Minded New Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    Please..... we have to be able to justify our cynicism and hatred of our fellow man, especially those who disagree with us. People in the military are certainly no exception to that.
     
  20. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    When was the last time you re-enlisted?

    (I just read that, and it sounds snippy, but read it as an honest question from someone curious as to your own situation. :D )

    Dave brings up a decent point, or at least a factor to be considered. The military would not offer signing bonuses if people were flocking to them, and they wouldn't increase them if they didn't have to.

    On some lever, those bonuses are a factor. Anectdotally, the stories probably range from those who want to finish the job to those who don't have anything lined up outside of the military and like the security to those who leave skid marks on the way out the door.
     
  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just stating a fact. You can infer a correlation if you like (and have common sense.) But if you do so, keep in mind two things.

    1. You're not regular army, you said so yourself.
    2. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=anecdote
     
  22. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like cheese.
     
  23. Crimen y Castigo

    May 18, 2004
    OakTown
    Club:
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Not da "craw"! Da CRAW!!"

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Sine Pari

    Sine Pari Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    NUNYA, BIZ

    Or you can infer that perhaps people like their jobs and believe in them.

    But if it helps you to think we are just mercenaries then go for it russ
     
  25. os_mutante

    os_mutante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2003
    City of Bad Carls
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You honestly think that people are re-upping based more on personal pride than because of a bonus? I suggest you look up the definition of the word "job".
     

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