News: Title IX, Science, and men's soccer.

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Yankee_Blue, Jul 15, 2008.

  1. Yankee_Blue

    Yankee_Blue New Member

    Aug 28, 2001
    New Orleans area
  2. Tishomingo redded

    Jul 15, 2008
    Isn't there a picture available without Tom's kids in it?
     
  3. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hadn't really thought about that because the picture comes from the Tom for Judge website so he already made them public.

    That said, I wouldn't object if a mod were to remove it. (It's too late for me to edit.)
     
  4. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    That would make the whole post irrelevant, as it specifically referred to the girls.

    EDIT: I just realized that tomforjudge.com is TF's campaign site. If he has the photos up there, what difference does it make that they're here as well? I mean, we made all sorts of jokes about Santorum's brood, but none of it went anywhere near a level of questionable commentary.
     
  5. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Okay, that's just freaky because I was thinking about that no more than 30 seconds ago.
     
  6. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In this case, as the article stated, it doesn't seem to make sense to apply Title IX to science.

    On the personal side, I know a couple of qualified women in science and they are probably better than the men. In fact, I made a comment about one of them getting a position at Columbia that was unrelated to her academic achievement, and she got pissed off (she, as an undergrad, was probably smarter and more capable than the post-doc in the lab). This personal note indicates, to me, that PhD candidates or above in science are either qualified or not, and have very little to do with gender.
     
  7. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    I'm in an engineering field, and this article was pretty interesting to me, although I did approach it with loads of scepticism.

    However, they did do a convincing job of backing up the assertation that once a woman gets a PhD in some of the hard science/engineering fields, she is on an equal footing with with male PhDs when it comes to getting professorships and tenure. That seems slightly inaccurate (there is still disparity at the tenure level), but they did put forward a good argument that it isn't about gender - it is about the fact that there are less female PhDs, ergo there will not be a 50/50 gender split at the professor level. And from my experience, I do kinda see that - if female grad students are 25%, then it is not gender discrimination at the university level that keeps the professor gender ratio at less than 50/50.

    It did strike me that efforts should be focused on earlier levels (high school, grade school, etc) such that there should ideally be closer to a 50/50 split in academia.

    Anyway, my personal experience - a female PhD is way more valued than a male PhD - and thus is more likely to get a private industry job. A good friend/coworker of mine was an african-american female PhD working in industry. She was fairly irate that she was always the one asked to do recruiting at college campuses - because she was a exacta/trifecta of diversity. It was like reverse discrimination in her job duties.

    But basically, my company thought she was great at her job, but really wanted to show her off to demonstrate our company's diversity. And at >$100k/year in industry, she made way more $ than professors - and as a rare commodity (black PhD in hard science), she could make way more money by not being a professor. Expecting a 50/50 split in acedemia is not in line with market forces.
     
  8. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As DJP said, that is the other side that the article did not mention - industry pays more than acedemia. Thus, if a qualified person wants the money, then industry is the best option. Further, what the article doesn't mention, is that it can take up to 10 years for somebody to go from PhD to asst professor. In that time, funding must be found, which is usually a qualifier for an asst professorship.

    In industry, you jump right in. I have a friend who graduated with a PhD a year+ ago. By the end of this year, she should be making close to $70k. Had she wanted to be a professor, she would still be doing her post-doc at about $35k to $40k.

    Big difference.
     
  9. saosebastiao

    saosebastiao New Member

    May 22, 2005
    Really? Thats what a recent PhD makes? I would have expected much much more than that.
     
  10. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    Well, in my unusual field, academia (but perhaps not ivy league institutions) ain't as horrible as you present it - you can possibly get tenure in ~ 5 years, not 10. But yeah - funding = tenure. As a consequence, many BS/MS/PhD go for the $ of industry (immediate payoff, and decent job security) instead of fighting for a potential, but often denied, tenure position.

    I'm skeptical of imposing a 50/50 gender split in professorships of my field, even though I'm pretty liberal and I am all for equal opportunity. My undergraduate classes had about a 3:1 gender ratio, so you would expect a similar ratio in academia. Any equality focus should be on changing the 3:1 undergraduate ratio (ie, upstream issues), not directed at the PhD/tenure level.
     
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OH MY GOD!!!!

    I've given out too much rep blah blah blah
     
  12. USvsIRELAND

    USvsIRELAND Member+

    Jul 19, 2004
    ATL
    Really interesting article.

    Does ThomasFlannigan still post here under a diff name?
     

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