"Time wasting" question

Sounds like you used your head and did the right thing. It wasn't like the team was going up to the touch line and then booming it 50 yards out of play. They have every right to play the ball out if they see fit. The shrubs being there is simply part of the environment, and you added time due to the environment slowing the recovery of the ball. Save the caution for the GK who takes 1 minute to take his goal kicks.

P.S.-My parents live in Frankfort! Have you been to the Creamery lately??

 

My parents love the Turtle Sundays. I prefer the Blizzard clone that they sell.

 

Here's something that I have instituted both as a coach and as a referee. And it is very simple. I have 3 game balls brought out to the official before the start of the match. They are kept at the halfway line and are rotated throughout the game as needed. Boom away, because the next ball is 2 seconds away.

R

 

I would have to say never. I have seen this asked a bunch of times, and it always comes back to it being a legal play with in the LOTG. It would be akin to the forward taking the ball to the corner flag and standing with a foot on top of the ball and making the defender come over to try to win it. Time wasting could only apply on restarts, subs, and those "injuries" designed to waste time and keeper taking to much time to deliver the ball. I'm sure I'm missing a couple of others, but have some game balls at hand to deliver onto the FOP and get the game moving again. Nothing wrong with blasting a ball in to the upper deck.

R

 

Sounds like it was handled appropriately. The only thing I might add from a game management perspective is to let the coach of Team B know that you're going to take care of it by adding time. While I would normally consider doing this more discretely (swinging by the bench area on one of your trips up the field and telling him you're aware of what's going on while point to the watch) so as to avoid a big discussion between us, I think in this specific scenario I might consider doing it more overtly, speaking to the coach of Team B but saying it loud enough for all to hear. It may be wishful thinking, but maybe it has the additional benefit of stopping the practice if Team A realizes that the ref is just going to add time. Either way, I think letting the coach of Team B know that you're handling the situation helps diffuse it from turning into a situation. No reason to leave him fuming at you for the rest of the game until he then realizes that you've added time.

[Obviously, this situation gets a lot trickier if you're at a tournament or in a league where you are not allowed to add time because of field constraint issues....]

 

As blech suggested, it is better to put a stop to the timewasting behavior than allowing it to continue and adding on time. As the referee, you need to be proactive in dealing with these sorts of situations. Sometimes, simply adding time isn't enough to restore fairness to the disadvantaged team. Illegal timewasting, which your situation wasn't, might kill the other team's momentum. Adding time on to the end of the match can't compensate for the team's lost momentum during the game.

 

I agree. We were just discussing this elsewhere, and you can't ever punish them for a legal kick of the ball, per se. Blech is right on the game management. You can also tighten up your calls on the "time wasting" team--generally, time wasters do lots of things--moving the ball back and forth along the six for goal kicks, goal keeper taking too much time to restart, repeated changes in who is going to take a throw-in, corner, free kick, excessively slow leaving the field on substiutions, etc. Some of those can be legitimately punished, and in a situation where a team is exploiting their legal option to kick the ball out and kill time, I'd look for possible calls where violations occur that might otherwise be let go as trivial. Having spare ball ready to bring in is another good proactive practice, as has been mentioned.

 

NEVER!

When has it become unlawful to perform a legal action, that is totally sanctioned within the game and a perfectly acceptable tactic to use during the match to slow things down? In effect your going to caution a player for simply kicking the ball. The law does not require that the ball is kicked in a certain way.

All you have to do is add time if there are unusually long stoppages in play.

Let me repeat, there is nothing illegal about kicking a ball that is in play. If it's a major problem, tell the complaining team to provide some extra game balls around the field that they can put into play - so there is less of a dealy.

 

I say, why not? Personally, I would be willing to caution for this unless it was a pro game or TV game.

Please explain to me how this is a more appropriate thing for the ref to do than to caution for the obvious timewasting thru 'legal' clearance of the ball into the next county.

 

Blue Devil,

There is NOTHING that allows you to caution for that time wasting move! Keep blasting away. It's totally legal. May not be ethical, but it certainly is legal. On the other, just keep adding the time on. If it takes 30 secs to retrieve the ball, add another minute. That's within the rules, as the time added is at the call of the referee. But there is NO violation of any LOTG by blasting the ball into the next county. If it happened in the first half, as a tactical move to allow the defense time to regroup, would you card it then?

R

 

If it happened repeatedly, I might caution for it, yes.

 

Remember that we always have the USB clause in our pocket.

 

Please explain to me how this is a more appropriate thing for the ref to do than to caution for the obvious timewasting thru 'legal' clearance of the ball into the next county.

I hardly think 5 yards qualifies as the next county. Perhaps the defense should just leave the ball at the penalty mark for the offense to just have a shot. It's mindboggling to me that anyone would suggest cautioning a defender for defending.

Scott

 

I don't see how kicking the ball is unsporting. If the teams tactic is to slow down the game by kicking the ball out of play and giving it to the other team, they are permitted to do this. It is strategy, not cheating! There is nothing that they are doing that is unlawful.

 

USB....for what? For defending? That would send a coach right into protest mode....And I doubt if you would be upheld. The defending team could send the ball anywhere they wanted to. The attacking team can take the ball to the corner flag and hold on to it and waste time too....all legal. The easy solution would be two fold...have otherr balls ready near the half way line, and also announce loudly you are adding another minute to the game....I bet the behavior stops. You have NO LOTG backing to card for sending the ball off the FOP.

 

That's not the same as a player putting the ball OUT of play such that it requires 30-60 seconds to retrieve it. Same sort of thing insofar as both maneuvers can be considered 'strategy' or 'action' by a player, but they are not the SAME thing.

In the U.S. we are given a good amount of info including lots of EXAMPLES of USB. They are examples, not an exhaustive list. If the ref feels something is USB in his game, then it's USB. The assessor may disagree with it. Hell, EVERYBODY may disagree with it. But the referee decides.

 

rf - "it's unsporting because i say it is" only goes so far. i'm on the side of - this is legal and no way can it be punished. just add some time.

 

I guess, using the logic of a few here, if a (losing) attacker takes a hard "wide" shot on goal that should be easily grabbed by the (winning) keeper, if the keeper makes no attempt to grab it and it rolls down an enbankment into a raging river, he should be penalized for time wasting!

Oy vey.....play on....

 

Putting my coach's shirt on in place of my ref's shirt, I think you are all focused on the "timewasting" aspect of this at the expense of other quite legitimate and probably more important reasons for putting the ball well and truly out of play.
If team A has what I will just call the momentum in a match, then one of the challenges facing team B is to break that pattern of play. While a sustained period of possession is probably what a coach would want most, there are times when simply getting a few seconds breather is a good first step. If a keeper is able to keep the ball at his feet for a few seconds before being forced to pick it up and put it in play, that's legal and good. If that breathing space can be gained by a forceful kick of the ball into touch, that will serve as well. I fail to see how you can call this unsporting without plunging into rather deep waters.
If the surroundings of a field are such that it can routinely take a long time to retrieve balls, then there needs to be a supply of match balls available to reduce delays to the match. It's a poor team that only has one ball available to play with if they can afford to pay for referees!
I'm not talking about the shenanigans that go on when the ball is out of play, that is pure timewasting and deserves to be punished as well as time restored.

 

Oh I'm not saying I'd caution it, I'm just saying USB is there for unique situations (and agree with bluedevils that it is up to the referee what is USB and what is not). I could honestly care less if he kicks it 5 miles out of play...as you say we just add time for the excessive loss of time.

 

I posted this excerpt from Jim Allen in the other discussion, guess I'll repeat it here, along with the link.

Gamesmanship, by its very name, suggests that the player is bending the rules of the game to his benefit. However, while he is not breaking the letter of the laws that cover play, he may be violating the Spirit of the Laws. Indeed, acts of gamesmanship in soccer can range from being entirely within the letter of the Law to quite illegal. Examples of legal gamesmanship are a team constantly kicking the ball out of play or a player constantly placing himself in an offside position deliberately, looking for the ball from his teammates so that the referee must blow the whistle and stop and restart the game. These acts are not against the Letter of the Laws, and players who commit them cannot be cautioned for unsporting behavior and shown the yellow card.

Referees can take steps against most aspects of this legal time wasting only by adding time. Remember that only the referee knows how much time has been lost, and he is empowered by Law 7 to add as much time as necessary to ensure equality. Acts of illegal gamesmanship fall under misconduct. Examples: a player deliberately taking the ball for a throw-in or free kick to the wrong spot, expecting the referee to redirect him; a coach whose team is leading in the game coming onto the field to "attend" to a downed player; simulating a foul or feigning an injury. Misconduct is a deliberate and illegal act aimed at preventing the opposing team from accomplishing its goals.



link is:

http://www.rsraref.com/training/betterref.shtml

 

The quote covers you adequately in this thread, but not in the other thread. I haven't taken the time yet to pick that one apart.

I don't care if JA says that kicking the ball out on purpose is not cautionable. If I'm doing a Sunday league game and the teams have just 1 decent game ball (happens all the time), one team is winning and deliberately banging the ball way off the FOP to kill time, I warn them a couple times that I am adding time when they do this and they need to cut it out or I may deem it USB...if they keep doing it, I'm nailing someone with a caution and I will report it here on this board with a smile.