"Three Strikes and Out" to the Supreme Court

Does this law apply to corporations? doesit apply to those who run corporations? If a company is found guilty of three offenses does it get its charter revoked? If a corporate exec is found guilty of three offenses, does he go to jail?

 

Re: Re: "Three Strikes and Out" to the Supreme Court

No. No. No.

Gotta love our criminal law.

 

Re: Re: "Three Strikes and Out" to the Supreme Court

Well, if this hypothetical criminal corporate exec flees to Europe in his private jet the three strikes rule will not apply because he could just find an American president to pardon him. I'm sure it could happen.

 

Well, if you're busted three times for the same friggin crime, then you're either stupid or you don't care. Either way, I don't want you on the street.

Jesus people. You sit around and bitch because nothing is done about high crime rates, and then you bitch when they institute a program that actually punishes the offenders. You can't have it both ways. Either you hold those responsible accountable or you don't. All too often, people are let off with light sentences. And this includes corporate crime as well as petty criminals.

Wouldn't it be nice if people could just control themselves?

 

Re: Re: Re: "Three Strikes and Out" to the Supreme Court

Yep, just ask Gilbert Dozier (Reagan, 1984; commuted sentence for extortion and racketeering)

Albert Alkek (Reagan, 1987; clemency for withholding information from federal officials regarding an oil price-fixing scheme)

Armand Hammer (Bush, 1989; pardoned for making illegal contributions to President Nixon's re-election campaign in 1972)

Edwin L. Cox, Jr. (Bush, 1993; pardoned for bank fraud)

Aslam P. Adam (Bush, 1993; clemency for heroin trafficking)

Joseph Occhipinti (Bush, 1993; commuted sentence for violating the civil rights of accused criminals)

 

To be fair to Ian, we all knew who and what he was talking about. Pointing out that his heroes indulged in the same sort of activity is counterproductive. To say nothing of wasted breath.

 

Killjoy.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if we spent money treating people instead of throwing them in jail? Anyone engaging in these types of risks has serious psychological and/or substance abuse problems.

The idea of locking non-violenet people up for decades is barbaric. How can anybody justify this?
Why stop at life in prison; how about torture them to death? That'll really be a lesson for anyone thinking of swiping a golf club.

 

If they are going to have a law, then it should be enforced. Otherwise, if its just going to end up not being applied becuase it was too harsch, then it was f'd up law in the first place. Why not do all this thinking BEFORE it's actually voted into place?

 

An example of the next argument once we abolish capital punishment and simply lock em up forever.

We should also have a sign-up list for compassionate people (like Ben) to house and take responsibility for parolees when they get released.

 

So, you are equating murdering someone with stealing a golf club?

 

I assume this also applies to corporate crime as well. The corproate executives who decide to break the law will simply be locked away forever. I guess it's a good thing for Jack Welch that he retired when he did because GE has a rap sheet a mile long.

 

How often do these rehabilitation programs work? I wouldn't know where to look for this information. I believe that if they were highly successful, then they would already be the preferred method for treating non-violent criminals.

Unlike Ben, I don't think everything can be fixed with counceling and medication. Some people are just bottom feeding scum who have no desire to correct their behavior.

 

Yeah, I'm Mr. Compassionate. I mean, anyone who steals three golf clubs deserves life in prison. Small-time theft, murder- it's the same thing, right?

I'm also not keen on spending over one million (enter Dr. Evil) dollars locking someone up over a $100 golf club. Those are some expensive golf clubs.

That said, you're pretty much right. I value the needs of every person whlie you consider criminals, even minor ones, worthless. I'd rather tolerate a few golf clubs getting stolen over living in a barbaric society that values petty property over human life.

 

No, I was ridiculing the notion that we can "treat" these people. If you have alot of confidence that we can cure a kleptomaniac, then you should be happy to have the ex-klepto living with you, and take responsibility for any relapses.

I was also pointing out that the anti-punishment crowd will find LWOP just as barbaric as death once they don't have the death penalty to be indignant about.

 

You think I want Ken Lay or some Arthur Andersen auditor living with me? No way! Lock 'em up! Throw away the key!

 

Right, that exactly what I said. Everything can get solved. Sure, yeah. That's what I said.

If we spent more on drug rehab and medical care, including mental health, we would get better results than just locking people up.

I don't consider people, especially the non-violent, "bottom feeding scum." That pretty much sums up the differences in our philosophy. If they're "bottom feeding scum," you can do anything to them, right? Who cares about bottom feeding scum. Lock 'em up forever. We don't want bottom feeding scum stealing our precious golf clubs. It's much easier spedning $30-40,000 a year incarcerating them. F it, just shoot the bastards!

I'd also think about what Joseph Pakovitz said. Those who steal on a grand scale, who ruin hundreds, thousands of lives; those folks frequently get off much easier than the golf club thieves. Why? Because they're not bottom feeding scum.

 

I agree that white collar crime is crime, period. There should be no differentiation. We agree on that point, I think.

But we will probably have to agree to disagree on how to handle repeat offenders.

And you still haven't provided any referrences or links backing your stance that rehabilitation works for the majority of participants. And thowing money at a problem seldom ever fixes the disease.

The same people that steal golf clubs would steal millions from unsuspecting people if they could. It's not the amount, but the fact that they could give a ************ about personal property. In my book, their scum.

And why the hell would we spend millions trying to fix people that can't seem to fix themselves?

 

I hope they abolish this law. I can't stand laws with baseball references in the title.

 

This is without a doubt the most reasoned argument against this law. I aplaud you.

 

I'm not sure everyone here is arguing the law should be repealed, more that the severity of the punishment doesnt fit the crime.

 

now you're getting the spirit, Joe!

No mercy for those miscreants.

 

No, because they are members of the country club who can pay scumsucking lawyers. And scumsucking politicians.

 

My stance is that rehab is a good investment, both morally and economically. Not that our underfunded efforts work a majority of the time. You continue to put words in my mouth. Locking up a criminal for life costs well over $1M. Drug rehab. costs approximately $20K. We don't need a 50% success rate, but closer to 5%.

You're willing to spend billions locking up petty criminals for 50 years. That's a whole lot of golf clubs.