Three points for a win - One for a draw

Discussion in 'Premier League: News and Analysis' started by Zola Magic, Jan 17, 2003.

  1. Zola Magic

    Zola Magic Member

    Nov 16, 2002
    Melbourne, Australia
    The thing I don’t understand about Soccer, which is now used Worldwide, is the rule awarding three points for a win and one point for a draw. Now, my understanding is that this rule was changed around 20 years ago allowing teams one point for a draw, instead of the two which used to be awarded to sides. However, I’m not 100% sure about that as I am only sixteen, therefore, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

    Anyhow, what I cannot understand is why three points (An odd number) is awarded for a win and one point awarded for a draw. I believe being awarded one point for a draw is fine. However, I disagree with the ruling allowing teams do be awarded three times as many points if a team wins.

    The current system (As you all know) works like this:

    Win – Three points.
    Tie – One point.
    Loss – Zero points.

    However, a draw is the middle-point between a win and a loss. Therefore, why can’t we award two points for a win instead of the current three? Using the lowest common denominator (One point for a draw) is a good rule, however, as I have already stated, we should not award a team three points for a win as the current ruling is basically saying winning a game is three times better than drawing a game.

    Let’s assume three games have been played, and the following has occurred:

    Arsenal – 1 win – 0 draws – 2 loses
    Chelsea – 0 wins – 3 draws – 0 loses.

    How on Earth are those results equal in achievement? Chelsea hasn’t lost a game, yet, Arsenal, who have lost two games are at the same level as Chelsea. It just doesn’t make sense to me.

    Again, I repeat – A draw is the Middle-point (half way between a win and loss), therefore, why do we only award a team three times the amount of fewer points than a team who won?

    Another point – There is no guarantee on the amount of points which will be given out during the season. The way the current system works - There is a possibility of either two or three points up for grabs per game. If we awarded a team two points for a win, there will ALWAYS be two points per game given out. Therefore, we will know straight away that 760 points will be given out each season. The way the current system works, a total amount between 760-1140 points could be given out.

    Which brings me to my next point. If there were two points instead of three points for a win, the current EPL ladder would stand:

    1. Arsenal – 34 points
    2. Man. U – 31 points
    3. Chelsea – 30 points
    4. S’Hampton – 27 points
    5. Newcastle – 27 points
    6. Liverpool – 26 points
    7. Everton – 26 points
    8. Blackburn – 25 points
    9. Tottenham – 25 points
    10. Man.City – 24 points
    11. M’brough – 22 points
    12. Leeds – 21 points
    13. A.Villa – 21 points
    14. Charlton – 21 points
    15. Birm’ham – 19 points
    16. Fulham – 18 points
    17. Bolton – 16 points
    18. S’land – 15 points
    19. West ham – 14 points
    20. West Brom – 12 points

    A lot better ladder, don't you think?
    I would like to hear the opinion(s) from others, as I can't understand why the rules were changed.
     
  2. Sukhwa

    Sukhwa Member

    Jul 29, 2002
    Korea
    I believe three points are awarded for a win in order to discourage teams playing for a draw and make them play attacking football. I'm not sure though.
     
  3. Zola Magic

    Zola Magic Member

    Nov 16, 2002
    Melbourne, Australia
    Yeah, a valid point. However, a draw can be neither a good thing nor a bad thing. Therefore, most teams should play for the win - If they try their heart out for the win and end up coming a draw, it seems to me they don't get awarded enough points. Or, what I should've said - Winning a game awards a team one too many points.
     
  4. ScouseCat

    ScouseCat New Member

    Jan 10, 2003
    Melbourne, Australia
    I can see where you are coming from here mate but I can also understand why the system is in place for soccer.

    Coming from Australia, Australian Rules Football awards 4 points for a win, 2 points for a draw and 0 points for a loss... a draw being the middle ground between a win and loss as you have already said. However, the chances of our games being draws are pretty remote compared to soccer. We are lucky to have one draw during our whole season as there is a lot more scoring in our game as opposed to soccer where there are almost as many draws as there are wins.

    The system was brought into soccer to reward teams for winning more, thus trying to make the game more attacking and therefore more appealing to fans worldwide.

    The whole idea of playing a game is to try to win, not settle for a draw and therefore I don't see any real problems with this new system.

    Good post mate!! :)
     
  5. Wide Boy

    Wide Boy New Member

    Aug 23, 2002
    London
    What you are proposing is a return to the old system. That was 2 points for a win and 1 for a draw, not 3 pts and 2 pts respectively.

    As other contributors have said, the idea was to make a win more valuable than a draw.

    In a game like football, which is low-scoring and in which scoring can be difficult, it was relatively easy for a team playing against technically better opponents to get a draw. They would do this by pulling back players to defend and "pack their goalmouth".

    The idea is that with a win being worth three times a draw there is an incentive for most teams to try for the win.

    I think it really has a beneficial effect, especially with regard to teams who play away from home. Under the old rules an away draw was regarded as a good result, now it is regarded as two points lost.
     
  6. Wide Boy

    Wide Boy New Member

    Aug 23, 2002
    London
    Re: Re: Three points for a win - One for a draw

    Err, what I meant to say was that a win should be even more valuable in comparison with a draw than it was under the old system.
     
  7. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    It was brought in about 20 years ago in England, but only adopted worldwide in the last 10 years. There was also an experiment for a year or two in the conference of awarding 2 points for a home win and 3 for an away win, but that idea was scrapped. As said before, it was put in place to try to prevent teams just going away and playing for a draw. I could be wrong, but I think the biggest impact has probably been in Italy where draws seemed the most common result due to ultra-defensive tactics.
     
  8. Zola Magic

    Zola Magic Member

    Nov 16, 2002
    Melbourne, Australia
    Yeah, I understand that, but - Why award three points for a win? Why not award five, or ten? If you don't recieve half the amount of points for drawing as applied to winning, it isn't a draw. A draw means you cannot split the sides together, therefore, you must give them half the amount of points each.
     
  9. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Well, your argument seems to be that the three points for a win is an arbitrary figure - and you're right. But no more arbitrary than five or ten. In fact, if anything, less arbitrary, as it was clearly chosen because it was one up from the then current 2 points for a win.

    The basic premise was that we wanted to make a win more valuable than a draw. That's it, in a nutshell.

    I don't think you're notion that a draw is "halfway between a win and a loss" stands up in real terms - you can get battered for 90 minutes and thoroughly deserve to lose on the basis of that performance, but still get away with a 0-0. Just because the result represents parity does not mean the game itself did. And, as such, the idea that you can place a result in an empirical context - against a win or a loss - is a flaky one.

    They wanted to make teams value the win more, settled on 3 points for a win and that was the end of it - no greater rhyme or reason, I reckon.
     
  10. ScouseCat

    ScouseCat New Member

    Jan 10, 2003
    Melbourne, Australia
    There was no better example of this then Liverpool vs Sunderland at Anfield this season. Sunderland didn't have a shot for goal but because they were able to hold Liverpool to 0-0, got one point from the match. There's no way in the world Sunderland deserved to get "half a win" from the match as only one team, (Liverpool) was trying to win.

    Can you imagine if we awarded teams 'half' for a draw compared to a win?? You'd have struggling teams like Sunderland play like they did this day against Liverpool because half the points would be seen as a fantastic result away from home and games like this would occur more often. I dont think anyone who likes this great game wants to see that!!
     
  11. roarksown1

    roarksown1 Member

    Mar 30, 2001
    Playa del Rey, CA
    Club:
    Hamburger SV
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm absolutely fine with the three points rule - I would only like to see one thing changed.

    I think that 0:0 matches should be 0 points for either team. You should at least have to score a goal to get any points.
     
  12. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    That would be impossible to implement though - imagine the uproar every time a team had a goal wrongly disallowed in a game that eventually ended 0:0.

    Besides, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with a 0:0 - the game against Sunderland is again an example. It was a cracker, despite the lack of goals.
     
  13. michaec

    michaec Member

    Arsenal
    England
    May 24, 2001
    Essex
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The ability to appreciate a good 0-0 draw is lost on some people.
     
  14. Clan

    Clan Member

    Apr 23, 2002
    Isn't that the truth.
    It's the quality of the game that counts...not the amount of goals scored.
     
  15. Dan26

    Dan26 New Member

    Mar 31, 2002
    I did a bit of a search for past tables and found some interesting results.

    The tables I found were from 1970 onwards, and from the English League. They didn't show the results before that. From the 1969-70 season until the 1980-81 season (the last 12 seasons with the two-point rule) the results were as follows.

    1969-70 to 1980-81:
    Matches - 5544
    Draws - 1602
    Percentage of draws - 28.90%
    Total goals per match (both teams combined) - 2.55



    From the 1981-82 season until the 2001-02 season (the first 21 seasons with the three-point rule) the results were as follows.

    1981-82 to 2001-02:
    Matches - 8840
    Draws - 2398
    Percentage of draws - 27.13%
    Total goals per match (both teams combined) - 2.63

    So, the 3-point rule has had the massive affect of decreasing draws by 1.77% and increasing the total goals per game from 2.55 to 2.63. Wow!

    If it was right for 100 years until 1981 why change it to make it more unfair? What has changed? Has there been more scoring? No (0.08 is nothing.) Has the amount of draws decreased? Not perceptibly.
     
  16. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Try the same stats for Italy.
    from 82-83 (first old rothmans yearbook I found lying about)

    Matches - 240
    Draws - 101 (42%)
    Goals 505 (2.1 per game)

    last season
    matches - 306
    Draws - 87 (28.4%)
    Goals - 806 (2.63 per game)

    More recently 90-91, one of the last 2pts for a win seasons and considered one of the most open & attacking seasons for years.
    Matches - 306
    Draws - 101 (33%)
    Goals - 702 (2.29 per game)

    So although in England the impact may not have been as great as expected, the same can't be said elsewhere.
     
  17. ScouseCat

    ScouseCat New Member

    Jan 10, 2003
    Melbourne, Australia
    It may not have had as much affect on the results of games but I believe it has changed teams' attitide towards how they approach the matches.

    I like the new system.... I'd much rather watch a game where both teams are trying to win rather then just settle for a draw.
     
  18. Zola Magic

    Zola Magic Member

    Nov 16, 2002
    Melbourne, Australia
    We all would, mate.
    Drawing with your opposition, though, means that your opponent never beat you. It also means you never beat your opponent. Therefore, you should be awarded an average amount of points that you would usually get for winning and drawing.

    Eg -

    Win - 3 points
    Lose - 0 points

    3+0=3. Two into three goes 1.5 times. That's the figure you should get for drawing. Work out the average you would get if you win a game and lost a game, then you would be able to work out the average when you divide the figure by two.
     
  19. ScouseCat

    ScouseCat New Member

    Jan 10, 2003
    Melbourne, Australia
    I understand what you are saying there mate, but what would stop lower teams like Sunderland, West Ham, West Brom, Bolton, etc etc. playing for draws every week and settling for half a win?? This would make it much easier for them to stay in the Premiership and would create a not so good spectacle for the fans watching the game.
     
  20. Andy

    Andy New Member

    Dec 23, 1998
    NYC
    What you don't see in those stats is how the game was played. Were both teams trying to get a draw or were they both trying to win and the game ended as a draw? In football more than any other sport, stats are meaningless(except the score, of coarse).
     

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