Thread to compare our lists of favourites and best players

PDG1978 · Jan 30, 2025

Ok, so I thought it could be interesting to make a list of 30 (ish) names that at this point we might each suggest were our favourites of all-time based on what we saw and know of them, and also a list of 'top' all-time players of an identical length, in our views, based on what we saw and know too.

It can be interesting to see how many players appear in both the lists and suchlike, although I'd ask we keep it light-hearted, friendly and fun, and that we don't look at the lists of each other too harshly or critically, don't slate inclusions in somebody's list of favourites, and don't get too hung up on disagreeing about where or if players are placed in lists of 'top' players (I use that word so that we also don't get hung up on exactly what 'greatest' should entail or involve and to what extent, and so that there isn't confusion with the word 'best' in terms of peak form vs career etc, even though I used the word in the thread title - it's up to the individual to use their own ideas or criteria, although probably to some extent 'top' would incorporate peak form and attributes, big game/tournament performances, consistency and longevity too; favourites should be more obvious in terms of having a liking for the player for his play and demeanour on the pitch, and perhaps off it even, and/or particularly enjoying what he shows/showed in various moments or in general).

I'll kick it off with my latest idea of my own selections in both respects, though I'll add a disclaimer in spoiler tags to acknowledge some possible points of contention re: the top players listing (feel free to do the same too...but remember the request to be friendly and easy on the choices of others anyway - there are other threads where the arguments on this topic already get heated and I don't intend this thread to be used like that)

Disclaimer (open) Disclaimer (close)

I realise for example that Cristiano Ronaldo has significantly more longevity and career impact than George Best does, or longer as a near-peak player than Ronaldo Nazario. I still lean a lot towards ideas about peak form/period overall (which would be a topic I know would create arguments as well), albeit not totally - he is getting some benefit re: the longevity and career impact vs a Ronaldinho, or for example Thierry Henry, and to some extent Roberto Baggio too. Ok, I think that's enough of a disclaimer on that topic!

I don't think I need a disclaimer on favourites, although it's true that quite a few are relatively obscure players I knew from English league football (most at least have some mentions on the 1st Division/Premier League thread on the forum, although not Robbie Dennison for example as he didn't actually play at that tier, although he did play International football for Northern Ireland - most I mentioned on the existing favourite players thread I think, although like I said this is up-to-date as of today and things can vary in respect of both our ideas about favourites and top players over time or in any given day/week I suppose).

Favourite 30 & Top 30 - PDG1978 (as of 30th January 2025) - favourites on left and 'top' players on right (as if anyone really needed that clarification lol!)
1: Kingsley Black & Pele
2: Dejan Savicevic & Johan Cruyff
3: Michael Laudrup & Diego Maradona
4: Lars Bohinen & Michel Platini
5: Dennis Bergkamp & Alfredo Di Stefano
6: Ivan Gudelj & Franz Beckenbauer
7: Brian Laudrup & Lionel Messi
8: Faas Wilkes & George Best
9: Nandor Hidegkuti & Marco van Basten
10: Paul Hooks & Eusebio
11: Georgi Kinkladze & Ferenc Puskas
12: Mark Draper & Zinedine Zidane
13: Robbie Dennison & Bobby Charlton
14: Johan Cruyff & Ronaldo Nazario
15: Zico & Cristiano Ronaldo
16: Johnny Rep & Zico
17: Roger Piantoni & Michael Laudrup
18: Tony Woodcock & Franco Baresi
19: Steve Stone & Bobby Moore
20: Jean Tigana & Gerd Muller
21: Gary Crosby & Garrincha
22: Stuart Ripley & Luis Figo
23: Andriy Shevchenko & Roberto Baggio
24: Johnny Metgod & Ronaldinho
25: Dominique Rocheteau & Kenny Dalglish
26: Graham Stuart & Gianni Rivera
27: Rafael Gordillo & Tom Finney
28: Lennart Skoglund & Karl-Heinz Rummenigge
29: Rob Rensenbrink & Stanley Matthews
30: Rob Matthews & Ruud Gullit

So as you see I just put 3 in both lists (although if I added another 10-12 choices I think I wouldn't be ruling out including Bergkamp, Savicevic, maybe Shevchenko too still in a 'top' players listing to be honest, and likewise taking a favourites list up to a similar point I'd think the likes of Finney, Pele and Eusebio for example could all be well under consideration for inclusion....). I guess I would say/admit that probably I did put Cruyff, Zico and Michael Laudrup about as high in the top players listing as I could conceive at this point (not to say I think I'm being biased in that; I suppose it makes sense I at least wouldn't do the opposite if I particularly appreciate their play though).

So yeah feel free to contribute with your own lists. This isn't any attempt to kick off a new top/best players voting thread or anything though (even though any submission will surely be interesting, as well as up-to-date on that topic which maybe had a bit of a hiatus on the forum - remember be respectful and nice though!). The favourites lists will possibly be the more interesting to see anyway I'd think, as well as the overlap between the chosen lists of players.

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 30, 2025

My vision is like much more Of a
extremely serious professional football Headcoach we need to win always Defending Set Pieces ..Decision-making Power ...and behaviour in Big Final Games ... defensive whole job ..TeamWork ..Bravery..Leadership..composure ..concentration ..anticipating pretty well..Work Rate ..Stamina..Endurance ...
are not ignored for me never never never ..

who wants to see art and Magic
Go to the Van Gogh, Picasso and Rembrandt's Museum

go to the seal circus

Top 30

1. Edson Arantes Pelé ....

2. Ferenc Puskas

3. Gerd Muller

4. Alfredo Di Stefano

5. G. Meazza

6. Johan Hendrix Cruyff

7. José Manuel Moreno

8. Michel Platini

9. FRanz Beckenbauer

10 . Ruud Gullit

11. Lionel Messi

12. Patrick Vieira

13. Sandor Kocsis

14. Diego Armando Maradona

15. Thuram

16 . Zinedine Zidane

17 . José Nasazzi

18. Scarone

19 . C. Ronaldo

20 . Lantos or Andreas Brehme or Lothar Matthaus

21. Romário

22 . Marco van Basten

23. Zico

24. Ronaldo Nazario de Lima

25. Marco Tardelli or Paolo Rossi or Cabrini or Scirea or Conti or Gentile ( Italy World Champion 1982 )

26. Didi

27. Mané Garrincha

29 . Mario Jorge Wolf Zagallo

30. Sir Bobby Charlton

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 30, 2025

Top 30 Favorites :

1. Jorge Burruchaga
2. Bebeto
3. Renato Gaucho
4. Roberto Gaucho
5. Robert Pires
6. Fernando Redondo
7. Muller
8. Raí
9. Palhinha
10 .Carlos Alberto Torres
11. Nilton Santos
12. Tostão
13. Gabriel Batistuta
14. Eusebio
15 . Moller
16. Littbarski
17. Klinsmann
18 . Bergkamp
19 . Thierry Henry
20 . Julio Cesar
21. Kohler
22. Mozer
23. Sammer
24. Basler
25. Desailly
26. Ruggeri
27. Maradona
28 . Gullit
29 . Van Basten
30. Vialli

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 30, 2025

PDG1978 said: ↑

Ok, so I thought it could be interesting to make a list of 30 (ish) names that at this point we might each suggest were our favourites of all-time based on what we saw and know of them, and also a list of 'top' all-time players of an identical length, in our views, based on what we saw and know too.

It can be interesting to see how many players appear in both the lists and suchlike, although I'd ask we keep it light-hearted, friendly and fun, and that we don't look at the lists of each other too harshly or critically, don't slate inclusions in somebody's list of favourites, and don't get too hung up on disagreeing about where or if players are placed in lists of 'top' players (I use that word so that we also don't get hung up on exactly what 'greatest' should entail or involve and to what extent, and so that there isn't confusion with the word 'best' in terms of peak form vs career etc, even though I used the word in the thread title - it's up to the individual to use their own ideas or criteria, although probably to some extent 'top' would incorporate peak form and attributes, big game/tournament performances, consistency and longevity too; favourites should be more obvious in terms of having a liking for the player for his play and demeanour on the pitch, and perhaps off it even, and/or particularly enjoying what he shows/showed in various moments or in general).

I'll kick it off with my latest idea of my own selections in both respects, though I'll add a disclaimer in spoiler tags to acknowledge some possible points of contention re: the top players listing (feel free to do the same too...but remember the request to be friendly and easy on the choices of others anyway - there are other threads where the arguments on this topic already get heated and I don't intend this thread to be used like that)

Disclaimer (open) Disclaimer (close)

I realise for example that Cristiano Ronaldo has significantly more longevity and career impact than George Best does, or longer as a near-peak player than Ronaldo Nazario. I still lean a lot towards ideas about peak form/period overall (which would be a topic I know would create arguments as well), albeit not totally - he is getting some benefit re: the longevity and career impact vs a Ronaldinho, or for example Thierry Henry, and to some extent Roberto Baggio too. Ok, I think that's enough of a disclaimer on that topic!

I don't think I need a disclaimer on favourites, although it's true that quite a few are relatively obscure players I knew from English league football (most at least have some mentions on the 1st Division/Premier League thread on the forum, although not Robbie Dennison for example as he didn't actually play at that tier, although he did play International football for Northern Ireland - most I mentioned on the existing favourite players thread I think, although like I said this is up-to-date as of today and things can vary in respect of both our ideas about favourites and top players over time or in any given day/week I suppose).

Favourite 30 & Top 30 - PDG1978 (as of 30th January 2025) - favourites on left and 'top' players on right (as if anyone really needed that clarification lol!)
1: Kingsley Black & Pele
2: Dejan Savicevic & Johan Cruyff
3: Michael Laudrup & Diego Maradona
4: Lars Bohinen & Michel Platini
5: Dennis Bergkamp & Alfredo Di Stefano
6: Ivan Gudelj & Franz Beckenbauer
7: Brian Laudrup & Lionel Messi
8: Faas Wilkes & George Best
9: Nandor Hidegkuti & Marco van Basten
10: Paul Hooks & Eusebio
11: Georgi Kinkladze & Ferenc Puskas
12: Mark Draper & Zinedine Zidane
13: Robbie Dennison & Bobby Charlton
14: Johan Cruyff & Ronaldo Nazario
15: Zico & Cristiano Ronaldo
16: Johnny Rep & Zico
17: Roger Piantoni & Michael Laudrup
18: Tony Woodcock & Franco Baresi
19: Steve Stone & Bobby Moore
20: Jean Tigana & Gerd Muller
21: Gary Crosby & Garrincha
22: Stuart Ripley & Luis Figo
23: Andriy Shevchenko & Roberto Baggio
24: Johnny Metgod & Ronaldinho
25: Dominique Rocheteau & Kenny Dalglish
26: Graham Stuart & Gianni Rivera
27: Rafael Gordillo & Tom Finney
28: Lennart Skoglund & Karl-Heinz Rummenigge
29: Rob Rensenbrink & Stanley Matthews
30: Rob Matthews & Ruud Gullit

So as you see I just put 3 in both lists (although if I added another 10-12 choices I think I wouldn't be ruling out including Bergkamp, Savicevic, maybe Shevchenko too still in a 'top' players listing to be honest, and likewise taking a favourites list up to a similar point I'd think the likes of Finney, Pele and Eusebio for example could all be well under consideration for inclusion....). I guess I would say/admit that probably I did put Cruyff, Zico and Michael Laudrup about as high in the top players listing as I could conceive at this point (not to say I think I'm being biased in that; I suppose it makes sense I at least wouldn't do the opposite if I particularly appreciate their play though).

So yeah feel free to contribute with your own lists. This isn't any attempt to kick off a new top/best players voting thread or anything though (even though any submission will surely be interesting, as well as up-to-date on that topic which maybe had a bit of a hiatus on the forum - remember be respectful and nice though!). The favourites lists will possibly be the more interesting to see anyway I'd think, as well as the overlap between the chosen lists of players.
Click to expand...

I did it my list

already Good Lucky there . !

PDG1978 · Jan 30, 2025

Wiliam Felipe Gracek said: ↑

I did it my list

already Good Lucky there . !
Click to expand...

Thanks! Cool to see. At first glance it seems to be maybe just Maradona and Gullit in both lists I think. I probably expected to see Gullit higher up your favourites list (though also quite high on the top players list for sure - maybe I would have guessed if Maradona would be higher on one of the lists than Gullit it would be the top players one, but I guess you did really enjoy watching the Maradona skills).

Interesting to see Burruchaga and Bebeto at the top of the favourites. I remember I kind of randomly guessed you might like to pretend to be Bebeto in the playground, so it was even a better guess than I knew! I remember you mentioned Burruchaga before as well of course. Pires and Redondo would be sooner or later mentioned by me on a favourites list too (probably higher than on a top players list, although it could be close since I probably rate them both quite high compared to the average guy I think).

PDG1978 · Jan 30, 2025

Wiliam Felipe Gracek said: ↑

Top 30 Favorites :

20 . Julio Cesar
Click to expand...

I guess this is the Julio Cesar you named William (although he was a defender so a goals video is maybe not the best or most representative thing to use - probably you enjoy his long range goals though I guess anyway!)?

Rather than the Inter Milan (and Brazil) goalkeeper?

Of course Muller is the Brazilian too I think (and remember you mentioned him before), even though IIRC you admire/appreciate Gerd Muller's play too:

I remember at some point some English clubs were said to be interested in signing him (IIRC Everton and/or Tottenham)....

Praasen · Jan 30, 2025

PDG1978 said: ↑

I guess this is the Julio Cesar you named William (although he was a defender so a goals video is maybe not the best or most representative thing to use - probably you enjoy his long range goals though I guess anyway!)?

Rather than the Inter Milan (and Brazil) goalkeeper?

Of course Muller is the Brazilian too I think (and remember you mentioned him before), even though IIRC you admire/appreciate Gerd Muller's play too:

I remember at some point some English clubs were said to be interested in signing him (IIRC Everton and/or Tottenham)....
Click to expand...

I remember him only for missed chances in italia 90.

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 30, 2025

PDG1978 said: ↑

Thanks! Cool to see. At first glance it seems to be maybe just Maradona and Gullit in both lists I think. I probably expected to see Gullit higher up your favourites list (though also quite high on the top players list for sure - maybe I would have guessed if Maradona would be higher on one of the lists than Gullit it would be the top players one, but I guess you did really enjoy watching the Maradona skills).

Interesting to see Burruchaga and Bebeto at the top of the favourites. I remember I kind of randomly guessed you might like to pretend to be Bebeto in the playground, so it was even a better guess than I knew! I remember you mentioned Burruchaga before as well of course. Pires and Redondo would be sooner or later mentioned by me on a favourites list too (probably higher than on a top players list, although it could be close since I probably rate them both quite high compared to the average guy I think).
Click to expand...

Depends on how any football fan evaluates
and evaluates correctly the whole aspects of the professional game

The 8 Power Bars for Athletes

How many entire matches did this person actually watch in more +++ depth

and If you really know how to evaluate correctly

with a professional Football Coach vision

8 Power Bars are :

Defending
Mental
Physical
Aerial
Sprint Speed
Technical
Vision and `Passing Skills
Attacking

+

Skills
{ Ball control Skills, Dribbling , Dribbling in Speed
}
effectiveness
Behaviour In Big matches
longevity

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 30, 2025

PDG1978 said: ↑

Thanks! Cool to see. At first glance it seems to be maybe just Maradona and Gullit in both lists I think. I probably expected to see Gullit higher up your favourites list (though also quite high on the top players list for sure - maybe I would have guessed if Maradona would be higher on one of the lists than Gullit it would be the top players one, but I guess you did really enjoy watching the Maradona skills).

Interesting to see Burruchaga and Bebeto at the top of the favourites. I remember I kind of randomly guessed you might like to pretend to be Bebeto in the playground, so it was even a better guess than I knew! I remember you mentioned Burruchaga before as well of course. Pires and Redondo would be sooner or later mentioned by me on a favourites list too (probably higher than on a top players list, although it could be close since I probably rate them both quite high compared to the average guy I think).
Click to expand...

yes Robert Pires ..

I was extremely motivated
also to play with Robert Pires on PES
and equally motivated..
to Train him in Football Manager 2003/04

I honestly wanted to look like him..
in terms of facial appearance and visual appearance at that time..
It's good to remember I was born in 1982..so...

in 2001 in the Confederations Cup against Brazil..

Robert Pires played great...I was very impressed with his performance in this match and in this competition
he's Vieira playing with the Brazilian Football Team..

Giving free lessons on good football
and at the same time
very efficient

in 2001 ... i had 19 years Old in that age

I was a very motivated guy with life in general... Everything was still new to my eyes there

1 Pre_assist (Opta ) ... against Paraguay in 1998 ...

i saw this entire match in that time . " World Cup 1998 full games "

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9565hq

What a Show that was by Robert Pires .. !

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 30, 2025

Praasen said: ↑

I remember him only for missed chances in italia 90.
Click to expand...

What's your Top 30 ????

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 31, 2025

PDG1978 said: ↑

I guess this is the Julio Cesar you named William (although he was a defender so a goals video is maybe not the best or most representative thing to use - probably you enjoy his long range goals though I guess anyway!)?

Rather than the Inter Milan (and Brazil) goalkeeper?

Of course Muller is the Brazilian too I think (and remember you mentioned him before), even though IIRC you admire/appreciate Gerd Muller's play too:

I remember at some point some English clubs were said to be interested in signing him (IIRC Everton and/or Tottenham)....
Click to expand...

yes Julio Cesar ..Borussia Dortmund too !

Andy Moller 1 Pre-Assist (Non-Opta )

What a Show that was by Andy Moller ...

I saw this whole match also in that age . !

Matthias Sammer .. had a grave Injury in that age ..

Julio Cesar great Positioning, composure , Leadership and Time to do Long Range Balls to Andy Moller to link the counter_attacks always ..for Borussia Dortmund

Andy Moller what a Player was !

Tv in Brazil .. shows the whole games from Bundesliga 90's

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 31, 2025

PDG1978 said: ↑

I guess this is the Julio Cesar you named William (although he was a defender so a goals video is maybe not the best or most representative thing to use - probably you enjoy his long range goals though I guess anyway!)?

Rather than the Inter Milan (and Brazil) goalkeeper?

Of course Muller is the Brazilian too I think (and remember you mentioned him before), even though IIRC you admire/appreciate Gerd Muller's play too:

I remember at some point some English clubs were said to be interested in signing him (IIRC Everton and/or Tottenham)....
Click to expand...

Muller was a superGenius and a World Football Phenomenon

I speak without any fear of making mistakes
that Muller

was he slightly better

than Ronaldinho Gaucho..

and pair to pair
with Michael Laudrup.. drawned

the brazilian Muller talking about Serie A Calcio 80's

Maradona, Platini, Gullit and Van Basten

They were all geniuses and wonderful players

Serie A Calcio 80's

was level on top in that age

in relation to foreign players..in the League..A

by Muller the Italian players.
they were much more +++ limited than the Foreigners.

he didn't really like the Italian players' style

Praasen · Jan 31, 2025

Wiliam Felipe Gracek said: ↑

What's your Top 30 ????
Click to expand...

There has been so many world class players historically.i cannot rank them in order tbh..impossible for me.i can name the players i like whom i've watched in videos though, some of them are as follows:
Pele,, johan cruyff, maradona, messi,R9, CR7,zidane, rivaldo, alessandro del piero, andrea pirlo, mbappe, griezmann, viera, thuram, lizarazu, zanetti, cannavaro, roberto ayala, pablo aimar, di maria, batistuta, denilson, ricardo kaka, lucio, romario, careca, valdano, cannigia, olarticoechea, mario kempes, fillol, bernd schnider, torsten frinze, lothar mattheus, brehme,voeller, littbarski, platini,giresse, rocheteau, alemao, fernando de napoli, donadoni, baggio, paolo maldini, boniek, michael laudrup, gullit, zenden, overmars, phillip lahm, zairzinho, rivellino, tostao, luigi riva, eusebio, beckenbauer, neeskens, van hanegam, uli hoeness, bonhoff, uwe seelar and...many more.

Praasen · Jan 31, 2025

Praasen said: ↑

There has been so many world class players historically.i cannot rank them in order tbh..impossible for me.i can name the players i like whom i've watched in videos though, some of them are as follows:
Pele,, johan cruyff, maradona, messi,R9, CR7,zidane, rivaldo, alessandro del piero, andrea pirlo, mbappe, griezmann, viera, thuram, lizarazu, zanetti, cannavaro, roberto ayala, pablo aimar, di maria, batistuta, denilson, ricardo kaka, lucio, romario, careca, valdano, cannigia, olarticoechea, mario kempes, fillol, bernd schnider, torsten frinze, lothar mattheus, brehme,voeller, littbarski, platini,giresse, rocheteau, alemao, fernando de napoli, donadoni, baggio, paolo maldini, boniek, michael laudrup, gullit, zenden, overmars, phillip lahm, zairzinho, rivellino, tostao, luigi riva, eusebio, beckenbauer, neeskens, van hanegam, uli hoeness, bonhoff, uwe seelar and...many more.
Click to expand...

And i've forgotten to add names of other greats.

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 31, 2025

Praasen said: ↑

There has been so many world class players historically.i cannot rank them in order tbh..impossible for me.i can name the players i like whom i've watched in videos though, some of them are as follows:
Pele,, johan cruyff, maradona, messi,R9, CR7,zidane, rivaldo, alessandro del piero, andrea pirlo, mbappe, griezmann, viera, thuram, lizarazu, zanetti, cannavaro, roberto ayala, pablo aimar, di maria, batistuta, denilson, ricardo kaka, lucio, romario, careca, valdano, cannigia, olarticoechea, mario kempes, fillol, bernd schnider, torsten frinze, lothar mattheus, brehme,voeller, littbarski, platini,giresse, rocheteau, alemao, fernando de napoli, donadoni, baggio, paolo maldini, boniek, michael laudrup, gullit, zenden, overmars, phillip lahm, zairzinho, rivellino, tostao, luigi riva, eusebio, beckenbauer, neeskens, van hanegam, uli hoeness, bonhoff, uwe seelar and...many more.
Click to expand...

Do you mean to say that you unfortunately didn't see countless entire matches of the oldest players like me did it ?

were more in Videos on Internet " Highlights " ?????

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 31, 2025

Ruud Gullit's Time ======== 1

C. Ronaldo's Time ======== Infinite " Free World "

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 31, 2025

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 31, 2025

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 31, 2025

PDG1978 said: ↑

I guess this is the Julio Cesar you named William (although he was a defender so a goals video is maybe not the best or most representative thing to use - probably you enjoy his long range goals though I guess anyway!)?

Rather than the Inter Milan (and Brazil) goalkeeper?

Of course Muller is the Brazilian too I think (and remember you mentioned him before), even though IIRC you admire/appreciate Gerd Muller's play too:

I remember at some point some English clubs were said to be interested in signing him (IIRC Everton and/or Tottenham)....
Click to expand...

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/u2zdR7X21DA

Djalminha ..

speaks there ..that the brazilian Muller was

even slightly better than Romário , Ronaldo Nazario .. then Better than Ronaldinho Gaucho and Alex de Souza

to play together always

by the higher Level Of Muller on the Field !

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 31, 2025

PDG1978 said: ↑

Thanks! Cool to see. At first glance it seems to be maybe just Maradona and Gullit in both lists I think. I probably expected to see Gullit higher up your favourites list (though also quite high on the top players list for sure - maybe I would have guessed if Maradona would be higher on one of the lists than Gullit it would be the top players one, but I guess you did really enjoy watching the Maradona skills).

Interesting to see Burruchaga and Bebeto at the top of the favourites. I remember I kind of randomly guessed you might like to pretend to be Bebeto in the playground, so it was even a better guess than I knew! I remember you mentioned Burruchaga before as well of course. Pires and Redondo would be sooner or later mentioned by me on a favourites list too (probably higher than on a top players list, although it could be close since I probably rate them both quite high compared to the average guy I think).
Click to expand...

...
.
.

Go To 1: 15 : 23 minutes at Video ...

Look the First touch Quality Of Robert Pires there on this Lance !

carlito86 · Jan 31, 2025

Wiliam Felipe Gracek said: ↑

Do you mean to say that you unfortunately didn't see countless entire matches of the oldest players like me did it ?

were more in Videos on Internet " Highlights " ?????
Click to expand...

This is not fair
You don’t need to have watched a player live to have an informed opinion about them
That is a false condition

PDG1978 said: ↑

Ok, so I thought it could be interesting to make a list of 30 (ish) names that at this point we might each suggest were our favourites of all-time based on what we saw and know of them, and also a list of 'top' all-time players of an identical length, in our views, based on what we saw and know too.

It can be interesting to see how many players appear in both the lists and suchlike, although I'd ask we keep it light-hearted, friendly and fun, and that we don't look at the lists of each other too harshly or critically, don't slate inclusions in somebody's list of favourites, and don't get too hung up on disagreeing about where or if players are placed in lists of 'top' players (I use that word so that we also don't get hung up on exactly what 'greatest' should entail or involve and to what extent, and so that there isn't confusion with the word 'best' in terms of peak form vs career etc, even though I used the word in the thread title - it's up to the individual to use their own ideas or criteria, although probably to some extent 'top' would incorporate peak form and attributes, big game/tournament performances, consistency and longevity too; favourites should be more obvious in terms of having a liking for the player for his play and demeanour on the pitch, and perhaps off it even, and/or particularly enjoying what he shows/showed in various moments or in general).

I'll kick it off with my latest idea of my own selections in both respects, though I'll add a disclaimer in spoiler tags to acknowledge some possible points of contention re: the top players listing (feel free to do the same too...but remember the request to be friendly and easy on the choices of others anyway - there are other threads where the arguments on this topic already get heated and I don't intend this thread to be used like that)

Disclaimer (open) Disclaimer (close)

I realise for example that Cristiano Ronaldo has significantly more longevity and career impact than George Best does, or longer as a near-peak player than Ronaldo Nazario. I still lean a lot towards ideas about peak form/period overall (which would be a topic I know would create arguments as well), albeit not totally - he is getting some benefit re: the longevity and career impact vs a Ronaldinho, or for example Thierry Henry, and to some extent Roberto Baggio too. Ok, I think that's enough of a disclaimer on that topic!

I don't think I need a disclaimer on favourites, although it's true that quite a few are relatively obscure players I knew from English league football (most at least have some mentions on the 1st Division/Premier League thread on the forum, although not Robbie Dennison for example as he didn't actually play at that tier, although he did play International football for Northern Ireland - most I mentioned on the existing favourite players thread I think, although like I said this is up-to-date as of today and things can vary in respect of both our ideas about favourites and top players over time or in any given day/week I suppose).

Favourite 30 & Top 30 - PDG1978 (as of 30th January 2025) - favourites on left and 'top' players on right (as if anyone really needed that clarification lol!)
1: Kingsley Black & Pele
2: Dejan Savicevic & Johan Cruyff
3: Michael Laudrup & Diego Maradona
4: Lars Bohinen & Michel Platini
5: Dennis Bergkamp & Alfredo Di Stefano
6: Ivan Gudelj & Franz Beckenbauer
7: Brian Laudrup & Lionel Messi
8: Faas Wilkes & George Best
9: Nandor Hidegkuti & Marco van Basten
10: Paul Hooks & Eusebio
11: Georgi Kinkladze & Ferenc Puskas
12: Mark Draper & Zinedine Zidane
13: Robbie Dennison & Bobby Charlton
14: Johan Cruyff & Ronaldo Nazario
15: Zico & Cristiano Ronaldo
16: Johnny Rep & Zico
17: Roger Piantoni & Michael Laudrup
18: Tony Woodcock & Franco Baresi
19: Steve Stone & Bobby Moore
20: Jean Tigana & Gerd Muller
21: Gary Crosby & Garrincha
22: Stuart Ripley & Luis Figo
23: Andriy Shevchenko & Roberto Baggio
24: Johnny Metgod & Ronaldinho
25: Dominique Rocheteau & Kenny Dalglish
26: Graham Stuart & Gianni Rivera
27: Rafael Gordillo & Tom Finney
28: Lennart Skoglund & Karl-Heinz Rummenigge
29: Rob Rensenbrink & Stanley Matthews
30: Rob Matthews & Ruud Gullit

So as you see I just put 3 in both lists (although if I added another 10-12 choices I think I wouldn't be ruling out including Bergkamp, Savicevic, maybe Shevchenko too still in a 'top' players listing to be honest, and likewise taking a favourites list up to a similar point I'd think the likes of Finney, Pele and Eusebio for example could all be well under consideration for inclusion....). I guess I would say/admit that probably I did put Cruyff, Zico and Michael Laudrup about as high in the top players listing as I could conceive at this point (not to say I think I'm being biased in that; I suppose it makes sense I at least wouldn't do the opposite if I particularly appreciate their play though).

So yeah feel free to contribute with your own lists. This isn't any attempt to kick off a new top/best players voting thread or anything though (even though any submission will surely be interesting, as well as up-to-date on that topic which maybe had a bit of a hiatus on the forum - remember be respectful and nice though!). The favourites lists will possibly be the more interesting to see anyway I'd think, as well as the overlap between the chosen lists of players.
Click to expand...

My top 15 favourite players (to watch)

Gheorghe Hagi
Cristiano Ronaldo
Diego Maradona
Zico
Dragan stojkovic
Lionel Messi
Ronaldo nazario
Dejan Savićević
Micheal laudrup
Roberto Baggio
Rivaldo
Arjen Robben
Neymar Jr
Ronaldinho Gaucho
Hristo stoichkov

My (current)top 15 greatest ever

Lionel Messi
Pelé
Cristiano Ronaldo
Ferenc Puskas
Johan Cruyff
Alfredo Di stefano
Diego Maradona
Franz Beckenbauer
Eusebio
Michel Platini
Gerd Müller
Zico
Bobby Charlton
Zinedine Zidane
Xavi Hernandez

PDG1978 · Jan 31, 2025

Wiliam Felipe Gracek said: ↑

...
.
.

Go To 1: 15 : 23 minutes at Video ...

Look the First touch Quality Of Robert Pires there on this Lance !
Click to expand...

I always loved this goal
Goal of the Day: Robert Pires vs Blackburn Rovers | Describe Arsenal's Robert Pires in ONE word __________________ | By The Emirates FA Cup | Facebook

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 31, 2025

carlito86 said: ↑

This is not fair
You don’t need to have watched a player live to have an informed opinion about them
That is a false condition

My top 15 favourite players (to watch)
Gheorghe Hagi
Cristiano Ronaldo
Diego Maradona
Zico
Dragan stojkovic
Lionel Messi
Ronaldo nazario
Dejan Savićević
Micheal laudrup
Roberto Baggio
Rivaldo
Arjen Robben
Neymar Jr
Ronaldinho Gaucho
Hristo stoichkov

My (current)top 15 greatest ever

Lionel Messi
Pelé
Cristiano Ronaldo
Ferenc Puskas
Johan Cruyff
Alfredo Di stefano
Diego Maradona
Franz Beckenbauer
Eusebio
Michel Platini
Gerd Müller
Zico
Bobby Charlton
Zinedine Zidane
Xavi Hernandez
Click to expand...

yes ...
It doesn't really have to be like this

watch all the entire matches from 1930's until 2025 like me

But my brain works like this
I can't ever stop him from being like this

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 31, 2025

PDG1978 said: ↑

I always loved this goal
Goal of the Day: Robert Pires vs Blackburn Rovers | Describe Arsenal's Robert Pires in ONE word __________________ | By The Emirates FA Cup | Facebook
Click to expand...

i saw already this Goal in my life and i remember this yet ..

Wiltord what a Pass there ...

NIce One for sure !

Wiliam Felipe Gracek · Jan 31, 2025